DHT powder dissolve
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The reason why we dissolve in tocopherols is because according to Ray and also current research the tocopherols allow the steroid to travel through the body on chylomicrons that are not metabolized in the first pass by the liver.
In addition to that, there is the lymphatic system effect whereby the steroid when dissolved in a fat of chain length 12 or greater is absorbed through the thoracic duct and enters the lymphatic circulation, thus bypassing the liver on the first pass.
To be completely frank, I do not know what relationship exists between these two mechanisms. I don’t know if they are two different mechanisms or if one is the effect of the other. Perhaps @Santosh or @haidut can chime in here.
It does seem that the steroid would have to be dissolved in either the tocopherols or the longer chain fat (or both) for either effect to take place, but I don’t know for sure.
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Besides my ethanol mixtures, i also tried dissolving DHT in pure tocopherol. Tried mixing 10%, which is the same % as progest-e. I heated the mixture by placing the beaker in hot water and stirring continuously for 20-30 minutes, and it did not dissolve.
I used Cliganic vitamin E which is pure tocopherols, not diluted with carrier oils. Based on the GCMS report they sent me it is 1180iu/g. I think that's pretty decent in terms of potency?
In Ray's patent, it says the progesterone concentration can be brought up to 25% which is huge. DHT is a bit less lipophilic than progesterone, having a LogP value of 3.27 compared to 3.87 of progesterone. This is probably partly due to having a hydroxyl group at position C17 which is polar, thus reducing its solubility in nonpolar solvents (like tocopherols). So theoretically, the max solubility of DHT might be around 15-17.5%, if a 0.60 reduction in LogP value corresponds to a moderate reduction in solubility (60-70% of progesterone's).
Maybe more stirring/heat is required and/or better quality vitamin e (we need to find progest-e supplier)?
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@wester130 Both unique e and health natura are less concentrated than cliganic. Lotioncrafter looks good but the shipping is more than the product itself for me since im in Europe
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@jamezb46 Hi, sorry for late response, manage to dissolve in beaker in hot water, got it around 1mg DHT per drop. Thank you
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Ok. I plan on dissolving T in vitamin E; your claim of being able to dissolve 20 mg DHT/mL is encouraging.
Please let me know what effects you have noticed from taking it, and please include dose and route of administration.
Also, if possible I would like to know what the concentration of tocopherols is in your solution in mg/mL.
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@jamezb46 Hi, I bought bottle of Vit E and they claim it’s has 395 drops of a bottle. Added around 320mg of DHT then dissolved with hot water on beaker so aiming around 1mg of DHT per drop.
First time taking I felt a little drowsy, libido increases slightly then lowers down again next day.
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@madmac where or how did you get dht powder? im trying to find a source but i cant please help me
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@dhtpowder user pannacottas has a source
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@dhtpowder purple panda
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@wester130 do you mind posting a link for that?
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Check Qingdao sigma chemicals on thinksteroids guys.
Also im not one to gatekeep sources and stuff but you need to search more, dont expect to be spoon fed about stuff like that. On thinksteroids if you ask for source at best they'll tell you to use the search function, at worst to fuck off for creating an unnecessary thread lol. -
@pannacottas I will give a try lol
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@pannacottas sorry for outing you
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@wester130 No worries, like i said i dont like gatekeeping anyways. The more people try dht the better imo
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I'm going to try to dissolve testosterone powder in a 10% solution of the same Cliganic product. I'll start with a 5% solution and if that holds, then I guess I'll decide at that point to either go for it or not.
There are a number of factors at play. For one, I'm not sure if I was ripped off by PPL. They might have given me Test A or test P.
But, there should be a way to make this happen. IdeaLabs can make upwards of 4mg of steroids per drop in Cortinon, so we know it's possible. Maybe it's the SFA/OA that makes the difference.
The only thing I worry about is that if I want to run the testosterone in vitamin E at say 25 mg/day, I don't want to run into issues with toxicity of vitamin E, so getting a 10% solution is kind of important.
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@jamezb46
It should definitely be possible. Someone on r/raypeat shared a method for dissolving dht in vitamin e, he achieved 10% concentration and he didn't even use 100% vitamin e, it was around 70% diluted with sunflower oil. I think he put a beaker with vitamin e in the microwave until it was too hot to touch, then he put the powder in, and then again in the microwave. Haven't gotten around to trying it yet since im perfecting my ethanol solution atm.That could be the case, on mesorx or some other forum in the past, it was said that PPL's dht was dht acetate.
Well P4 and DHEA are more easily soluble i think. 4mg per drop means 80mg/ml, if a drop is 0.05ml, which is high but not super high.
Why are you worried about vitamin e? Im the opposite, the more i can take the better (up to a point but it's already hard to take enough). Only thing i would keep in mind is to take it seperately from vitamin k, like i already do with progest-e.
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@pannacottas
with taking it seperately you mean timing wise? like progest-E in the evening and vitamin k in the morning or is it enough if i take progest E transdermally and Vitamin K orally? -
@NokiaDrift
Yes timing wise. Vitamin E can potentially deplete vitamin K, and they likely share the same pathways for metabolism and excretion (so probably depletion can be in either direction but K hasn't been shown to deplete E). But this is in regards to high doses, not the ones found in estroban for example.Also, Ray has said that when vitamin E and quinones are mixed together they produce a black pigment. I read somewhere (maybe by haidut?) that this is an unfavourable redox reaction but Ray did not at any point say the reaction is problematic. I was under the impression that you shouldn't take E&K together because of that reaction but after researching it, turns out this is not a concern at all.
So just take E or supplements dissolved in E a few hours before or after K, if taking large doses, like maybe >200IU E and >5mg K2. Otherwise you can take them together.