Meaning of digital culture?
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Ray cited early days of computers and Norbert Wiener's proposal for analog devices. I have not read those books. Maybe they're great but nowadays digital infrastructure is unavoidable. The premise that analog devices cannot be censored by authoritarian forces is unclear. As long as storage and distribution are centralized, there will be censorship.
The bigger issue is that the Internet and media have become bigger than direct experience of the physical world. The system slowly poisons all participants, and media offer a mild escape. Most humans in the developed countries are very reluctant to give up old stories. For example, how many are aware of the anti sugar cult and toxicity of certain fats? The digital infrastructure has no way to differentiate incorrect information from truth. Many other examples continue to circulate with no practical opposition: fluoride, glyphosate, x rays. When it comes to something like starch, most humans are chained by culture so much that there is little chance of any change.
Ray said that it'd take a catastrophic event for real change to happen. I thought corona was that but now it's clear that it was a nothingburger engineered for now unknown purpose.
Do you think the status quo will continue for another 50 years or radical change is on the horizon (less than 5 years) ?
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Ray cited early days of computers and Norbert Wiener's proposal for analog devices. I have not read those books. Maybe they're great but nowadays digital infrastructure is unavoidable. The premise that analog devices cannot be censored by authoritarian forces is unclear. As long as storage and distribution are centralized, there will be censorship.
The bigger issue is that the Internet and media have become bigger than direct experience of the physical world. The system slowly poisons all participants, and media offer a mild escape. Most humans in the developed countries are very reluctant to give up old stories. For example, how many are aware of the anti sugar cult and toxicity of certain fats? The digital infrastructure has no way to differentiate incorrect information from truth. Many other examples continue to circulate with no practical opposition: fluoride, glyphosate, x rays. When it comes to something like starch, most humans are chained by culture so much that there is little chance of any change.
Ray said that it'd take a catastrophic event for real change to happen. I thought corona was that but now it's clear that it was a nothingburger engineered for now unknown purpose.
Do you think the status quo will continue for another 50 years or radical change is on the horizon (less than 5 years) ?
I appreciate this thoughtful post.
If we look at the last five years-
How do you assess?
I have experienced radical change
Especially as a parent
Emphasized by me going against the status quoI think things are only accelerating
I see it everyday
Just even in our neighborhoodPeople are ill
People are deceived
So many having no idea how to think for themselves….A Brave New World….
Here is a short audio of me asking Ray a disjointed question about the future sort of
He says digital culture doesn’t end well
And we need human conceptshttps://bioenergetic.life/clips/433f2?t=3809&c=72
Have you seen this thread on the rpf?
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/i-asked-peat-about-his-legacy.36976/
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@Peatful 3 questions, right?
Last 5 years felt rather predictable and incremental. I had mild hope that a critical mass would accumulate and old hoaxes will be questioned, but it hasn't happened. I don't see how things are different now aside from the title of the news cycle which went from a health crisis to an economic crisis. The vast majority is still ignorant of the hoaxes and too ignorant of physiology and industrial processes to see the deeper meaning.
Your question for Ray about education and his answer. Best is not to participate in the school system at all. Ray did it because of libraries and equipment. It is much more practical to use sci-hub and Amazon for those these days. Ray's answer is cliché and not consistent with reality of artificial intelligence, for example. People don't need to reject it at all, as it simply doesn't work. Programming is a boring endeavor and made artificially complicated by committees and corporations, as well as a system of intellectual property. The demand for IT workers is very small and most IT products are useless. The layoffs are caused by this fact not by AI. You can see how digital solutions don't solve the problems they claim to solve. The internet was supposed to be a free library, now it's a censored circlejerk. Bitcoin was supposed to be electronic cash, now it's a digital collectable. VR doesn't work because there's no movement immersion. That being said, human interaction is still valued and there's nothing stopping us from using the internet to facilitate human conversations.
I have seen that thread and shallow knee jerk reactions from some users. It provides no context for why digital culture is bad and what the alternative should be.
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I don’t agree with your assessment and or counter argument
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“I feel so strongly that deep and simple is far more essential than shallow and complex.” - Fred Rogers
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Data is the lowest form of “intelligence” or “enlightenment” or freedom
Then informationSome will pursue knowledge
Then comes understanding
With wisdom being the apex
The digital world keeps people enslaved to data and information
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@Peatful what counter argument? I mostly agree with Ray here, aside from the reaction part. Isn't ludicrous to call for rejection of "digital culture" via email or internet podcast? I understand rejection of symbolic culture, but digital culture has no clear meaning just like data and information.
I prefer to hear more practical steps like minimizing exposure to video and images by displacing them with audio.
By saying that culture keeps people enslaved you imply lack of agency and willpower. So that answers my question. No radical change for another 50 years.
As for knowledge, it comes from direct experience. When devices mediate the model of the physical world, there is no knowledge acquisition. It doesn't matter if the devices are digital or analog.
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I’m running an errand for work which means I’m driving and this is voice recognition.
Ironic
I’m not sure what you do for a living or where in the world you live, but I am in the US and I’m in a high people high touch industry
I see people no longer know how to relate to other people
And a big upward trend of not being able to even relate to themselvesOne of the very weak reasons I kept my two girls in public schools aside from our private schools being no better
Was for the socialization was for the team sports was for the working in groups collaborativelyI look at some of the trends in the East,
and it’s very troubling to me -
@Peatful I read propaganda and acquire appropriate contracts. It's rather boring like playing poker. I reject the Protestant ethic concept of doing anything for a living. It's a non-noble idea of eating without contribution/working. Artificial intelligence is not fully developed yet, so the aristocracy still needs a small number of peasants. Aristocracy in a freedom sense, not in the context of finance. I quite like the natural beauty of the US, especially the Cascades. The pariah mentality of the office cattle, not so much.
Have you considered Steiner schools? Or Ray style homestead? Why the eagerness to participate in a toxic culture? Why waste so much time listening to bozo teachers?
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The situation in the East will create higher demand for manufacturing in the US. Copying the trades of Congress members should be sufficient for basic war profiteering at the middle class level.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
@Peatful I read propaganda and acquire appropriate contracts. It's rather boring like playing poker. I reject the Protestant ethic concept of doing anything for a living. It's a non-noble idea of eating without contribution/working. Artificial intelligence is not fully developed yet, so the aristocracy still needs a small number of peasants. Aristocracy in a freedom sense, not in the context of finance. I quite like the natural beauty of the US, especially the Cascades. The pariah mentality of the office cattle, not so much.
Have you considered Steiner schools? Or Ray style homestead? Why the eagerness to participate in a toxic culture? Why waste so much time listening to bozo teachers?
Most of their teachers have been deplorable
So i can’t argue with you thereI did it because
Because
This is lifeAnd we have a counter cultural family
I live for the moments where - they get it
They get it!I also look at some wonderful homeschool families
But those kids are being “indoctrinated” just in a different wayIn regards to the East
I was thinking of the “police state” in China
And
The tech culture in Japan and KoreaI find both things quite frightening
For different reasons of course -
@Peatful it seems like it works for you, so nothing's wrong with the standard school system.
Ironically, the most human aspect these days seems to be obsession with tech. I'm not for or against it. I find underwhelming. I want the technocrats to succeed because it means a world with scifi level miracles. We don't have that. We have some upper middle class folk who soared because they ran their gaming computer to run internet money software 15 years ago. That's not taught in schools, eh?
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
The premise that analog devices cannot be censored by authoritarian forces is unclear.
Is it? Maybe you are one. With "internet" access included. Maybe your mere existence is counterbalance to the temporarily inhumane. Moreso if you're strategically and performatively gobby.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
The digital infrastructure has no way to differentiate incorrect information from truth.
Of course it's just a medium. Many will accept a source or two as being grounded in it for trauma, lack of energy, or no encroachment requiring them to pay attention. And to be fair it is a little exhausting. The amount of bullshit I've had to hear and see simply to weed it out as it encroached on my life was never pleasant. Even less pleasant is coming to understand who probably knows they're lying and why they're probably doing it. It was easy and entertaining to hate them, harder to understand they're deluded, need help and live with that. For now.
"The greatest bull**** detector in the realm is sitting somewhere in the gut-(-heart-)brain axis of every man, woman and child on earth. It probably needs energy, context and time to work properly, and weather a shock or two."
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
most humans are chained by culture so much that there is little chance of any change.
Depends on the change in my opinion. A simple one to something fundamentally required for the devious propagation of bullshit and establishment of disorder is absolutely possible. The conversation is on the ether right now. I wonder where that came from.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Ray said that it'd take a catastrophic event for real change to happen. I thought corona was that but now it's clear that it was a nothingburger engineered for now unknown purpose.
Corporatists trying to consolidate their holding with a side of techno marxism. And a steiner-esque potion to disorient the bullshit detector. Maybe, just musing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJkagesk_P8 (Better resets and reforms are available.)
It's quite possible the catastrophic events already happened. Life and discourse seem a little glitchy, don't you think. A lot of people are adrift.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Do you think the status quo will continue for another 50 years or radical change is on the horizon (less than 5 years) ?
Neither. It will be beautifully boring. Minus the wojak tears of daydreamers.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Ray's answer is cliché and not consistent with reality of artificial intelligence, for example. People don't need to reject it at all, as it simply doesn't work. Programming is a boring endeavor and made artificially complicated by committees and corporations, as well as a system of intellectual property. The demand for IT workers is very small and most IT products are useless. The layoffs are caused by this fact not by AI. You can see how digital solutions don't solve the problems they claim to solve. The internet was supposed to be a free library, now it's a censored circlejerk. Bitcoin was supposed to be electronic cash, now it's a digital collectable. VR doesn't work because there's no movement immersion. That being said, human interaction is still valued and there's nothing stopping us from using the internet to facilitate human conversations.
That was highly amusing, thank you.
But Ray's answer was in a developmental context. A child won't reject something that doesn't work unless they understand that it doesn't. And most products are useless, never mind IT.
I agree about the conversations. That's what I remain 'online' for.
Also shitcoin had to appear 'valuable' to summon a development effort. Now the code is there, Joe Public is holding the bag and a lot of people are carrying 'smart'phones whose 'platform' 'integrity' can be 'attested' to.
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@ThinPicking thank you too. I was a bit moody when I joined the forum, so I was afraid of immediate disenchantment, but the vibe is of a renaissance of the pre reddit era.
developmental context
I ponder if some kids will naturally get bored of digital tech and move on. Vinyl is having a revival. I also see many boomers using Apple Pay and being glued to their phones too.
'smart'phones
Most use it as a combo of a pager and a TV. I use it mostly as a reader and radio, but hard to ditch the pager part, even if most online conversations are frustratingly meaningless and toxic.
most products are useless
Yes, but with physical ones there's a possibility of turning them into something else. Fidget spinner buttplug makes a funny door knob.
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@ThinPicking what do you mean by ether? I assume it's the over unity and cold fusion crowd. I'm quite cautious of them, though they're interesting to keep an eye on. Definitely nothing happening with Ethereum, and diethyl ether is too niche to become a meme.
Corporatists trying to consolidate their holding with a side of techno marxism. And a steiner-esque potion to disorient the bullshit detector.
Aren't they supposed to have all the power they need going back a whole century or maybe all civilization timeframe? I don't see how more bullshit will prevent anyone from not believing in bullshit.
Steiner and secret society crowd are right about truth. Peat and PUFA is a great example. 50 years of explaining, and most are still unaware. We don't need to be lame and wear stupid robes though to find out the info. The secret is just buried by industrial amounts of corporate gospel. Usually people split into 2 camps, one is bootlicking, the other chooses a different type of dogma. Flat earth vs NASA, vegans vs carnivore, techno Marxist vs preppers.
It's quite possible the catastrophic events already happened.
The vast majority of humans are systemically ill. Not an event, slow crawl. In the past, the peasants would revolt sometimes. Revolting is more dangerous (and more fun) than simply not participating.
I asked about 50 years also because of Thiel, Tyler Cowen, George Hotz, Rory Sutherland from the tech cult raising concerns about stagnation. Similar timeframe compared to PUFA.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Steiner and secret society crowd are right about truth. Peat and PUFA is a great example. 50 years of explaining, and most are still unaware. We don't need to be lame and wear stupid robes though to find out the info. The secret is just buried by industrial amounts of corporate gospel. Usually people split into 2 camps, one is bootlicking, the other chooses a different type of dogma. Flat earth vs NASA, vegans vs carnivore, techno Marxist vs preppers.
I'm listening to his lectures on the 4 books of the gospel. It is fascinating like no other. It made me open up to a different reality that is very separate from our material and very reductionist orientation, which is the product of modern society and culture and highly "advanced" education.
But I was a lifelong Catholic, and the last straw of doubt was in how the Church and the Pope played a key role in disseminating falsehood with the COVID hoarding. This accelerated my thirst for truth and in finding answers, seeing now how much of the truth is not in the church I was born into, nor even the other Christian churches. The truth lies elsewhere.
Reading Steiner would help in unpacking some truths I seek. Ray's truth is better than the medical establishments truth, and I hope Steiner's truth would be better than the religious establishments truth.
We would need our brain to keep developing, aided by the surplus energy of full mitochondrial respiration, to power our search for being enlightened with truth. Even though the brain is but a small part of capturing divine inspiration.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
I ponder if some kids will naturally get bored of digital tech and move on. Vinyl is having a revival. I also see many boomers using Apple Pay and being glued to their phones too.
There's definitely a borderline spooky propensity for them to get very wise to it very quickly. It's probably not a good idea to keep levying corporate experiments on and decapitalising them. That's probably not going to end well. And I really don't think they need a carbon budget on a screen to know abject materialism is somewhat 'unsustainable' (vinyl or other SME art products are not that). They probably just don't want to live by rules that let anyone else defer the consequences of theirs and seek rent without a return of equity.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
what do you mean by ether?
I meant that it's on the wind, the same place I got it. I can find people discussing the nature of commerce and monopolisation online. And being more open to discussing it in person.
In my socioscientific life, I've never seen anything quite like it. I don't think theatrical shock and awe could stop it either. And this is a lot more constructive and useful than a finger wagging protest.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Aren't they supposed to have all the power they need going back a whole century or maybe all civilization timeframe? I don't see how more bullshit will prevent anyone from not believing in bullshit.
Maybe they can't hold it in place, distorted to the extent it is, without lies or authoritarian imposition. And maybe you're right. Which may be why we came quite close to scanning QR codes to buy bubble gum, and the bullshit wouldn't stick.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
Steiner and secret society crowd are right about truth. Peat and PUFA is a great example. 50 years of explaining, and most are still unaware. We don't need to be lame and wear stupid robes though to find out the info.
I agree. Although aspects of my own walk are definitely ritualistic. They don't involve robes and not codifying them.
"Tell me a lie in a beautiful way, I believe in answers just not today"
I still don't find it particularly unreasonable for people to be hitting the snooze button on their alarm clocks. As long as some are getting out of bed. And more than ever are on their feet.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
The vast majority of humans are systemically ill. Not an event, slow crawl.
I'm not going to call it a majority but sure. Some people are dying faster than others. And almost nothing could arrest it. Try as they might to slow it down, without getting to the heart of their ailment.
@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
the tech cult raising concerns about stagnation
Well, they did it. If you distort the supply and velocity of money, and try to divert the interests of people. They're going to peacefully say fuck you at some point.
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@yerrag I haven't read Steiner's books. They're more up to date and less dogmatic than Abrahamic literature. Careful with false dichotomies. Materialism and reductionism are very useful for fixing machines, but fail miserably with living cells. Blindly opposing a mindset or a technique removes your ability to see other worlds. I am not very interested in what's divine. It's a mostly meaningless word for me. I often catch myself asking gods to help me, but realize how lame it is to be a beggar, so I just ask for a sign when I'm in a state of panic and severe stress. Sometimes the response is undeniable and swift (I saw weird spooky lights on a hike, but it turned out to be just the moon obstructed by vegetation). I thought I was gonna see aliens but the rigid forces of reason returned me back into the matrix. Ultimately the willpower, openness to accept good messages will machete a path through the jungle.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
I often catch myself asking gods to help me, but realize how lame it is to be a beggar, so I just ask for a sign when I'm in a state of panic and severe stress. Sometimes the response is undeniable and swift (I saw weird spooky lights on a hike, but it turned out to be just the moon obstructed by vegetation). I thought I was gonna see aliens but the rigid forces of reason returned me back into the matrix. Ultimately the willpower, openness to accept good messages will machete a path through the jungle.
******* great.
And I can attest. It's real.
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@ThinPicking if a process exists it is sustainable. Industrial calculation driven mindset worships long term planning, but it never works in practice.
I was really mindblown by the Internet media for years. Free movies from the pirate bay and memes on imageboards, calling friends on Skype, checking cool links, small blogs where you could post your address and no one would care, YouTube in super low res with a guy next door uploading a silly joke using a shitty camera. Looking at it now, it's absolutely unimpressive, but golden age compared to what we have now: a chatbot that can't say nigger, and everyone is afraid of spying and doxxing. I watch maybe 2 movies per year now, use YT to download Peat radio shows.
My best explanation for corona and stagnation is lack of growth in the fuel supply to feed the Leviathan. But that's impossible to verify as stats like reserves and population numbers are manipulated.
I'm not going to call it a majority but sure
2/3 humans in North America are overweight or obese, metabolically ill. You mean it's too mild for big change?
I still don't find it particularly unreasonable for people to be hitting the snooze button on their alarm clocks. As long as some are getting out of bed. And more than ever are on their feet.
I don't put my effort into convincing them. They like being raped as long as they don't get killed. They actually prefer it this way. Funny thing is I talked to esoteric folk about physiology, and they just say I'm an atheist and that kinda stuff is boring. I still wanna "share"/"publish" a few things but struggle to motivate myself to make my findings more discoverable and marketable.
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@psi said in Meaning of digital culture?:
@yerrag I haven't read Steiner's books. They're more up to date and less dogmatic than Abrahamic literature. Careful with false dichotomies. Materialism and reductionism are very useful for fixing machines, but fail miserably with living cells. Blindly opposing a mindset or a technique removes your ability to see other worlds. I am not very interested in what's divine. It's a mostly meaningless word for me. I often catch myself asking gods to help me, but realize how lame it is to be a beggar, so I just ask for a sign when I'm in a state of panic and severe stress. Sometimes the response is undeniable and swift (I saw weird spooky lights on a hike, but it turned out to be just the moon obstructed by vegetation). I thought I was gonna see aliens but the rigid forces of reason returned me back into the matrix. Ultimately the willpower, openness to accept good messages will machete a path through the jungle.
We're undeniably born into a world of material reductionists, and can't help but be one. It would just be like being born into a world of sugar being evil, only to slowly accepting it as good. But you have to be exposed, and to think about the other side of it, to suspend judgment, or revise your conviction, in order to widen your horizon.
I am tempted to kidnap you, and subject you to audio lectures of Steiner, and when you are released, you may wish to be kept longer in captivity.
Ray often writes in passing about the active field of life and how that idea is rejected by material reductionists, but that idea is valid and exploring more into it is not something I would consider out of my scope.
After all, when we talk about digital culture, it is very much about how information is put together and repackaged for dissemination into our minds. As to whether the digital intermediation makes us all the more enlightened and capable makes me question whether the material limitation of our exposure to ideas is enough. What we don't know enough of is not reason for rejection. Truths remain whether we know of them or not.
