Calorie deficit but gaining fat?
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@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
@Butter-Girl said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
I've been trying various combinations of carbs/fat, calories and exercise and measuring my body composition. I'm 182cm and 95kg. BMR formulas say my expenditure is 2600 kcal.
What is worrying is that regardless of calorie intake, I seem to be putting on fat mass week by week. With exercise, I put on muscle also, but losing fat seems almost impossible. I try to eat 80-120g of protein per day and keep carbs high (200-500g) and fat low (30-50g).
During one week I ate almost 3000 kcal per day and walked for an hour per day. Muscle mass stayed pretty much the same but fat mass was increased by 0,5kg.
During another week I ate 1800 kcal per day, no exercise. I lost 1kg of muscle and added 1kg of fat. Fat intake was about 50g per day.
How is it possible to put on a kilo of fat if fat intake on that week was only 350 grams? De novo lipogenesis should not have contributed much since carbs were way under 500 grams.
According to mainstream science, it's not possible for muscle cells to convert to fat cells, but since the opposite is possible, I wonder if muscle to fat is also possible: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8290478/
This is just my experience, but now that I have been bumping up my saturated fat, mostly from dairy, I have lost 5 lbs.
I avoid Pufa oils of course.
I’m actually eating about 1,000 calories more than when I was starving myself.
Maybe focus on that. It also has increased my body temperature.
I eat carbs. but when I ate too many I didn’t lose.
There’s something about the dairy fat that our body’s like and use.- I also do not do strenuous exercize. I burned out my adrenals doing that and caused my body to go into stress mode- not allowing me to lose weight.
Just like Peat said.
What is the ratio of carbs/protein/fat you eat now? So you eat butter and full milk or cheese?
Roughly I’d say 40/30/30
Yes, I eat butter, cheese, milk, cream
I used to eat very little dairy.
- I also do not do strenuous exercize. I burned out my adrenals doing that and caused my body to go into stress mode- not allowing me to lose weight.
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Where do you get this idea that it is “excessive” and turning into ammonia? This is pretty standard information based on studies done on muscle retention while in a deficit. Around a gram per pound of body weight, or slightly under that has been known to be ideal for muscle mass for a long time.
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@Hearthfire said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
@revenant If you're gaining weight, you're not really in a caloric deficit. Very simple.
You are lying about the amount of calories you're eating.
Track them accurately.
Heh, well this is the age-old argument by reddit scientists.
Why would I "lie" about my calories? Sure, it may not be 100% accurate, but I cook my own food and weigh everything, so it's in the ballpark. Let's say it's off by +-200 kcal, it still means I don't lose weight by eating 2000 kcal (1800 + 200), while my metabolic rate SHOULD be 2600 kcal.
It's of course possible that my metabolic rate is horribly low.
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@RawGoatMilk88 said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
Where do you get this idea that it is “excessive” and turning into ammonia? This is pretty standard information based on studies done on muscle retention while in a deficit. Around a gram per pound of body weight, or slightly under that has been known to be ideal for muscle mass for a long time.
From haidut, for example.
It's actually a gram (or 0,8 grams usually) per pound of lean body mass, not total body weight. So it would be 120-150 grams of protein for me, given my lean body mass of 147 pounds.
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It has nothing to do with "reddit scientists", weak ad hom.
People lie to themselves about the calories they're consuming all the time, by grossly underestimating how much they're consuming, and not tracking ingredients properly. Sometimes its a mental thing, your body perhaps wanting those calories so you unconciously fudge the numbers.
Calorie surplus makes you gain weight, calorie deficit makes you lose weight. It's very simple, and thoroughly and proven. It's a FACT.
You have to figure out what your TDEE is for your body composition, activity level, BMR, etc. The easiest way is to keep lowering calorie intake until you start losing weight consistently, and you really have to weigh yourself every day and track things accurately.
You can believe all you want that overactive/underactive thyroid magically makes it so you can consume 9k calories without gaining weight, or consume 100 calories a day and still gain weight, but its simply not true. Does it have some effect? Yes. Is it that massive of an effect? No. Bodybuilding community has gone through all of this for many years.
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@Hearthfire said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
It has nothing to do with "reddit scientists", weak ad hom.
People lie to themselves about the calories they're consuming all the time, by grossly underestimating how much they're consuming, and not tracking ingredients properly. Sometimes its a mental thing, your body perhaps wanting those calories so you unconciously fudge the numbers.
Calorie surplus makes you gain weight, calorie deficit makes you lose weight. It's very simple, and thoroughly and proven. It's a FACT.
You have to figure out what your TDEE is for your body composition, activity level, BMR, etc. The easiest way is to keep lowering calorie intake until you start losing weight consistently, and you really have to weigh yourself every day and track things accurately.
You can believe all you want that overactive/underactive thyroid magically makes it so you can consume 9k calories without gaining weight, or consume 100 calories a day and still gain weight, but its simply not true. Does it have some effect? Yes. Is it that massive of an effect? No. Bodybuilding community has gone through all of this for many years.
NEAT alone can account for 1000 kcal per day, and given that calorie intakes 100 years ago were much higher (~1000 kcal) than today, I would say metabolic rate can be greatly affected by thyroid and other things.
You can claim all you want that I'm not tracking calorie intake accurately, I don't care what you believe.
"Calorie surplus makes you gain weight, calorie deficit makes you lose weight. "
Yes, but this is such an empty statement that it means nothing. It's a fact only because it cannot ever be proven wrong; because it's a tautology.
What is INTERESTING however, is why one person of the same size and activity level can eat 2000 kcal and lose weight and another one will gain weight. How do you explain that with CICO?
I'm sure if I cut down to 1000 kcal per day I will probably lose weight. But I have seen what happens when I cut back to 1500 kcal per day. Many other problems appear. That's why it's not a practical solution. If you have never lived on 1500 kcal per day then you don't know what you're talking about.
There has to be a way to eat 2500 kcal per day and not gain weight, since some people clearly manage to eat that much (and much more in fact).
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@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
It's a fact only because it cannot ever be proven wrong; because it's a tautology.
lol....my god. It's been proven correct through testing it by millions and millions of people.
@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
What is INTERESTING however, is why one person of the same size and activity level can eat 2000 kcal and lose weight and another one will gain weight. How do you explain that with CICO?
That's not a thing. The variation between the two will be very small. What does cause major differences is one person vastly over-estimating, or vastly under-estimating how much they're eating, which happens A LOT.
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@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
There has to be a way to eat 2500 kcal per day and not gain weight, since some people clearly manage to eat that much (and much more in fact).
Yeah, it's called have a high activity level that increases your TDEE. Work out 1-2 hour a day, and/or have a job with high activity level.
This is all super basic stuff that every entry level gym bro learns....
Why is this such a mystery to "Peaters"?
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@Hearthfire said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
It's a fact only because it cannot ever be proven wrong; because it's a tautology.
lol....my god. It's been proven correct through testing it by millions and millions of people.
@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
What is INTERESTING however, is why one person of the same size and activity level can eat 2000 kcal and lose weight and another one will gain weight. How do you explain that with CICO?
That's not a thing. The variation between the two will be very small. What does cause major differences is one person vastly over-estimating, or vastly under-estimating how much they're eating, which happens A LOT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-exercise_activity_thermogenesis
"Besides differences in body composition, it represents most of the variation in energy expenditure across individuals and populations, accounting from 6-10 percent to as much as 50 percent of energy expenditure in highly active individuals.[4]"
You consider that "very small"?
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@Hearthfire said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
@revenant said in Calorie deficit but gaining fat?:
There has to be a way to eat 2500 kcal per day and not gain weight, since some people clearly manage to eat that much (and much more in fact).
Yeah, it's called have a high activity level that increases your TDEE. Work out 1-2 hour a day, and/or have a job with high activity level.
This is all super basic stuff that every entry level gym bro learns....
Why is this such a mystery to "Peaters"?
There are studies suggesting that added exercise simply means you will spend less energy on other functions of the body (including NEAT), for example the studies on the Hadza:
But even if that weren't the case, exercising will just make you hungrier. So eating 1500 kcal without exercise is the same as eating 2000 kcal with exercise -- you'll be miserable and destroying your metabolism either way. Yes, you can pull it off maybe 3-4 times in your lifetime, but after that it stops working; or you'll have to reduce calories further and further.
Yeah, it is super basic gym bro stuff, which is why it's wrong.
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@revenant you should post your diet components. you didnt list any of the meals you eat so how can anyone tell. maybe you are undereating some micros. maybe your macro balance is suboptimal too. maybe you need more veg to balance acidity to increase muscle (yes this is a thing)
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Hmm yes, well it varies but here's is an example of a sub-2000 kcal day:
And here's a 3100 kcal day:
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I usually supplement 200-400 mg of magnesium and some B vitamins. Occasionally take 15 mg zinc or 2 mg copper. Started taking 5000-10000 IU of vitamin D per day since spending time in the sun during summer did not raise my vitamin D levels. Also vitamin A sometimes, maybe 1000-5000 IU per day.
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i would add way more vegetables. if you're interested in body recomp and athletic performance your meals should really be starch meat and veg and then eggshell to balance the phosphorus. that's my opinion. a bit of zucchini isn't enough plant food. the fruits dont really count, yeah they have micronutrients but not as much as cooked leafs or other veg.
if youre trying to lose fat it doesnt make sense to have less nutrient dense stuff like cheesecake and cokes. you should be using whatever opportunity that anytime you eat something in a lower calorie diet to get the maximum nutrient density in. you only have a certain amount of calories to eat right now so you should be choosing the most nutrient dense things.
yeah i saw the rat studies with how they lost fat on coca cola. show me anyone who has done that and thrived.
milk with sugars imo is a good meal replacement for convenience and not a staple of the diet. i.e. you eat 4-5 meals a day, you can have 1 as milk or other dairy stuff.
and i dont think fruit should be meals. fruit can accompany a meal and help with digestion (e.g. digestive enzymes in pineapple etc.) but it is a waste of an opportunity to make fruit a meal. again talking about body recomp an performance. not leisurely vacation diet. you would get way more out of using that opportunity to get nutrient density in.
add cooked leaves and cabbages and bell peppers and lettuces and stuff. ive never experienced the downsides of these that people on rpf postulated about for years. in fact i did way better when i added all this stuff i took out after browsing rpf and taking ray's words too literally and personally
