If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?
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@Butter-Girl, thank you for linking the videos. I had heard of Dr. Bright before, but hadn’t looked at her work. I know some aren’t a fan of following cravings, but I’ve done a lot of work clearing out old beliefs and getting to a place where I trust mine. I’ve even had blood work validate that I was right to trust my cravings. For example, last December I came down with a virus and began craving beef teriyaki and hotdogs, meat being a food I rarely crave, and bloodwork revealed that I had an iron deficiency. My ferritin level was almost non-existent.
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@Jennifer said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@Butter-Girl said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@Jennifer said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@Butter-Girl said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@sphagnum said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
You asked two different questions, and made related statements so I’m not sure exactly which part(s) you wanted directly answered.
I would agree that saturated fat is both safe, and healthy when consumed in moderation. We all need dietary fat to some degree, and it’s likely by far the safest.
I would agree that saturated being a staple of many traditional diets, when those same people could have just as easily found a way to use PUFA, should encourage and not discourage its use. Many people are indoctrinated to think everything “modern” is automatically superior, though.
As for FFA: my very novice understanding is that any FFA, even from saturated fats, when elevated, can lead to insulin resistance which then leads to metabolic issues. What exactly would be considered “elevated,” and what dietary actions would lead you personally to that level, I couldn’t begin to guess at.
Basically, I’m asking if it is a healthy approach to eating.
Having saturated fat in my diet now has done so many positive things for me. I used to avoid fats of all kinds thinking they were “bad”, but studying Peat’s approach and seeing good results for myself, I like it.
I’m just wondering about the “amount” of saturated fat though.
How much is safe for the liver and how much is not?
I understand the latest science is saying saturated fat is not bad for the heart like we were told for the last 50+ years.
How much FFA for saturated fat is considered healthy for the body?
There are a lot of conflicting comments because there are those who still say “only” low fat is good.Well, what’s correct?
To fat or not to fat, that is the question.
Going by what you’ve shared here, in your case, to fat. In my case, to fat. And having spent two decades in the low-fat, high-carb, plant-based community, for many women I know of, to fat. The amount of women who lost their period, only to have it return when they increased their fat intake was sizable enough to not only take notice, but come to expect it. I also know of quite a few men in the community whose libido disappeared and returned after they started incorporating coconut regularly in their diet. The women don’t often talk about their libido so I can’t comment on their experience in that regard, but mine matches the men’s in that saturated fat intake, especially from coconut, positively affects the quality of my libido, i.e., improves the intensity and frequency of orgasms. Same with carbs, especially from fruit. Fat also satiates me and overall, makes me my happiest. For me, ice cream without cream is no ice cream, and life without ice cream is no life. You’ll find plenty of “science” in support of and against fat so I’d say trust your experience above all else.
You sound like me- your history. We woman have had it drummed into our heads that (good saturated) fat is taboo. Almost a conspiracy isn’t it?
About fat and libido, omygosh yes! Fat is well amazing
Yeah, I don’t know anyone who can eat “icy” ice cream.
A sorbet is one thing, but gotta have the butterfat for quality ice cream
It’s so true. Though, for me, it could have been so much worse had I not grown up in a French family where foods rich in saturated fat were staples. I’m not sure about conspiracies, but I know religion and beliefs regarding “purity” have played a part in the low-fat, plant-based movement. For example, the history of Dr. John Harvey Kellogg and dry cereal. I found it quite disturbing to learn why certain beliefs took hold. With “authorities” promoting the reenactment of famine through self-imposed starvation, the suppression of pleasure and with it instinct, and actual beatings to comply (Dr. Walter Kempner of the Rice Diet, for example), it’s no wonder there is so much fear and confusion surrounding something as vital but basic as food.
Very interesting what you’ve mentioned. I’ll have to look into the history of Dr. Kellogg as well. I had heard of Dr. Kempner’s Rice Diet, but “beatings to comply”? That doesn’t sound good.
Yes, with the low fat, plant based movement, it seems that there’s this elitism attached to it. Like you are a more virtuous person if you eat only plants LOL.
I know the Seventh Day Adventists follow this way of thinking. Kinda crazy if you ask me. -
@Butter-Girl, yep, Dr. Kempner openly admitted to whipping his patients to adhere to what he described as a “monotonous and tasteless diet which would never become popular” because he thought “the risk to their life was so great that it warranted harshness.”
The current incarnation of Kempner’s protocol is just as alarming, IMO. The Rice Diet is a meager 800–1000 calories a day:
“The rice diet consists of rice, grains, fruits, vegetables and beans, with an option of fish available on Saturday evenings. The diet provides 800-1000 calories a day, 5-10 percent of which derive from fat and 5-20 percent from protein. Sodium intake is extremely low on the rice diet, which contributes to the diet's success, but also mandates careful medical monitoring.”
There are quite a few well-known, plant-based practitioners who were Seventh-day Adventists. I followed a protocol developed by a practitioner who was a Seventh-day Adventist and like the other Seventh-day practitioners, his religious beliefs are woven throughout his work, something I was unaware of when I started following it. He even discussed racial purity and at that point, I was done with it. Natural Hygiene also has a strong focus on purity as the movement began in the 1830s, a very puritanical time period. One of its first pioneers was Sylvester Graham, inventor of the graham cracker who also influenced John Harvey Kellogg. A more virtuous person if you eat only plants is a good way of putting it. It’s more about morality than science.
In my recovery, I’m a soldier at war, I have broken down walls
I defined, I designed, my recovery
In the sound of the sea, in the oceans of me
I defined, I designed, my recovery ~ James Arthur -
I also feel best when I eat a lot of fat. Definitely trust your instincts on it.
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@Butter-Girl said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
Anyone have an answer?
Why has FFA a bad connotation?
See & "Demystifying FFA" if you're in a hurry
Starting point:
“Free fatty acids (FFAs) are associated with several cardiovascular risk factors and exert harmful effects on the myocardium.” Oxford Academic.
Why are free fatty acids bad?
FFAs may have toxic effects by increasing reactive oxygen species leading to cell death and necrosis [9] and by depressing the immune cell function [10]. In addition, FFAs potentiate insulin resistance and impair glucose metabolism by inhibiting glucose oxidation and by stimulating protein kinase C [1,10].13 févr. 2019. NIH
Do we eat free fatty acids?
Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) are vital for many bodily functions and are available through various sources that include dietary intake, endogenous production, and from stored fats. Understanding these sources is essential for managing dietary needs and metabolic health.
Official definition of FFA (parenthesis) (you can zap)
Free fatty acids (FFAs) are non-esterified fatty acids that are released by the hydrolysis of triglycerides (triglyceride molecule is composed of three fatty acid molecules bound to glycerol) within the adipose tissue by lipoprotein lipase.
Vocabulary: Non-esterified = without the alcohol molecule.
Esterification is the general name for a chemical reaction in which two reactants (typically an alcohol and an acid) form an ester as the reaction product.
=> Fat + glycerol. A triglyceride molecule consists of a glycerol backbone esterified with three fatty acids.Demystifying FFA
What is in excess is bad. If FFA is up to 5% (15% in very bad cases) it won’t cause any problem provided your liver functions normally and that your muscle cells are sensitive to insulin (when not coated with huge fat, whenever BMI is not > 30).
How much carbs (Optimal ratio)
The optimal ratio between carbohydrates and proteins should be around 2/1. For example 25 g of meat and 50 g of carbohydrates, half of which would be fructose (slower metabolize), preferably from fruit (with fibers). Otherwise, 100 - 150 ml of fruit juice will do the job, as a transient staple.
If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism, etc.
Freely inspired from:
http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/anti-ageing/defending-fruit-and-other-noncomplex-carbs/
Conclusion:
If FFA comes from food, there is no problem provided you assimilate well and don’t store overweight calories.
If you have too much fat round the muscles (BMI > 30) you’ll have problems with the liver. You’ll function in an erratic way (bad fuel supply).
If you stress, there you’re going to have problem with FFA. The membranes will relieve stored fatty acids, including arachidonic acid (AA). This is where the problems will increase, at the in terms of inflammation and hormonal imbalance.
Whenever you stress, you don’t function on glycolysis (glucose) but on fat (lipolysis). You need 90’ minutes to recover after an upside-down mode.
AA cascade
See detailed diagram on this link (French site, my forum, so translator needed, but with English links) (different hormonal pathways, from PUFAs):
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2055-les-omega-3-sont-ils-vraiment-essentiels#29809
Note: See Reference 12) too if you’re not convinced by SFA.
12) Les AS saturés – À contre-courant
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1844-les-as-satures-a-contre-courant#25370 -
@Jennifer said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@Butter-Girl, yep, Dr. Kempner openly admitted to whipping his patients to adhere to what he described as a “monotonous and tasteless diet which would never become popular” because he thought “the risk to their life was so great that it warranted harshness.”
The current incarnation of Kempner’s protocol is just as alarming, IMO. The Rice Diet is a meager 800–1000 calories a day:
“The rice diet consists of rice, grains, fruits, vegetables and beans, with an option of fish available on Saturday evenings. The diet provides 800-1000 calories a day, 5-10 percent of which derive from fat and 5-20 percent from protein. Sodium intake is extremely low on the rice diet, which contributes to the diet's success, but also mandates careful medical monitoring.”
There are quite a few well-known, plant-based practitioners who were Seventh-day Adventists. I followed a protocol developed by a practitioner who was a Seventh-day Adventist and like the other Seventh-day practitioners, his religious beliefs are woven throughout his work, something I was unaware of when I started following it. He even discussed racial purity and at that point, I was done with it. Natural Hygiene also has a strong focus on purity as the movement began in the 1830s, a very puritanical time period. One of its first pioneers was Sylvester Graham, inventor of the graham cracker who also influenced John Harvey Kellogg. A more virtuous person if you eat only plants is a good way of putting it. It’s more about morality than science.
Wow, saying Dr. Kempner had issues is an understatement.
More like a psychopath.
Sure, they’re going to lose weight eating such a paltry amount of calories and food choices.
I wonder if his clients (I mean victims) regained back the weight they lost afterward? -
@LucH said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
@Butter-Girl said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
Anyone have an answer?
Why has FFA a bad connotation?
See & "Demystifying FFA" if you're in a hurry
Starting point:
“Free fatty acids (FFAs) are associated with several cardiovascular risk factors and exert harmful effects on the myocardium.” Oxford Academic.
Why are free fatty acids bad?
FFAs may have toxic effects by increasing reactive oxygen species leading to cell death and necrosis [9] and by depressing the immune cell function [10]. In addition, FFAs potentiate insulin resistance and impair glucose metabolism by inhibiting glucose oxidation and by stimulating protein kinase C [1,10].13 févr. 2019. NIH
Do we eat free fatty acids?
Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) are vital for many bodily functions and are available through various sources that include dietary intake, endogenous production, and from stored fats. Understanding these sources is essential for managing dietary needs and metabolic health.
Official definition of FFA (parenthesis) (you can zap)
Free fatty acids (FFAs) are non-esterified fatty acids that are released by the hydrolysis of triglycerides (triglyceride molecule is composed of three fatty acid molecules bound to glycerol) within the adipose tissue by lipoprotein lipase.
Vocabulary: Non-esterified = without the alcohol molecule.
Esterification is the general name for a chemical reaction in which two reactants (typically an alcohol and an acid) form an ester as the reaction product.
=> Fat + glycerol. A triglyceride molecule consists of a glycerol backbone esterified with three fatty acids.Demystifying FFA
What is in excess is bad. If FFA is up to 5% (15% in very bad cases) it won’t cause any problem provided your liver functions normally and that your muscle cells are sensitive to insulin (when not coated with huge fat, whenever BMI is not > 30).
How much carbs (Optimal ratio)
The optimal ratio between carbohydrates and proteins should be around 2/1. For example 25 g of meat and 50 g of carbohydrates, half of which would be fructose (slower metabolize), preferably from fruit (with fibers). Otherwise, 100 - 150 ml of fruit juice will do the job, as a transient staple.
If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism, etc.
Freely inspired from:
http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/anti-ageing/defending-fruit-and-other-noncomplex-carbs/
Conclusion:
If FFA comes from food, there is no problem provided you assimilate well and don’t store overweight calories.
If you have too much fat round the muscles (BMI > 30) you’ll have problems with the liver. You’ll function in an erratic way (bad fuel supply).
If you stress, there you’re going to have problem with FFA. The membranes will relieve stored fatty acids, including arachidonic acid (AA). This is where the problems will increase, at the in terms of inflammation and hormonal imbalance.
Whenever you stress, you don’t function on glycolysis (glucose) but on fat (lipolysis). You need 90’ minutes to recover after an upside-down mode.
AA cascade
See detailed diagram on this link (French site, my forum, so translator needed, but with English links) (different hormonal pathways, from PUFAs):
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2055-les-omega-3-sont-ils-vraiment-essentiels#29809
Note: See Reference 12) too if you’re not convinced by SFA.
12) Les AS saturés – À contre-courant
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1844-les-as-satures-a-contre-courant#25370“What is in excess is bad”
Yes, that’s what I am thinking.
You wrote:
“ If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism”
So, for example, you ate 3 eggs cooked in a little butter and a sausage, but you also had coffee with cream and sugar…..
The sugar along with the protein from the eggs and sausage enter the cell and thus increase metabolism? The sugar with the protein is good, is what you are saying?
If you didn’t have the sugar with the meal, would it not be as good, meaning, as pro-metobolic?
In my example, the sugar is not from fruit, but just straight sugar. Would this still be a pro-metabolic meal? -
@insufferable said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
I also feel best when I eat a lot of fat. Definitely trust your instincts on it.
I feel great eating fat now because I used to avoid it.
Especially saturated fat. But now I am trying to balance the saturated fat with the protein and carbs.
I notice too much pure saturated fat with little carbs or protein makes me feel clogged up.
It’s a necessary thing to have the fat but too much is just, well, too much. -
You wrote:
“ If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism” So, for example, you ate 3 eggs cooked in a little butter and a sausage, but you also had coffee with cream and sugar…..=> A lot of sugar in your coffee then. 15 to 20 gr. Or 2 sticks (10 gr) and a Medjool date.
The sugar along with the protein from the eggs and sausage enter the cell and thus increase metabolism? The sugar with the protein is good, is what you are saying?=> You need a little sugar to avoid hypoglycemia. Proteins have the capacity to stimulate insulin too.
Your breakfast is ill-balanced so.
Poor quality protein with sausage. I eat pork sausage on an exceptional mode.
OK for eggs if they’re free farm eggs (enhanced omega-3). I never eat Be-2 or NL-2. Only Be-1 (free range) or Be-0 (organic) if the date is not good.
Be or NL are suffixes to establish the country where the eggs come from.
You need to balance with glycine when eating eggs. Rich in leucine. You could have a bone broth to avoid taking one supplement.
Leucine enhances growth (cancer) if you don’t manage well. Mind above 2.5 mg.
One egg contain 0.5 to 0.6 mg L-leucine.If you didn’t have the sugar with the meal, would it not be as good, meaning, as pro-metobolic? In my example, the sugar is not from fruit, but just straight sugar. Would this still be a pro-metabolic meal?=> Stressful without sugar.
When you have sugar table (cane or beet, even if brown, exception for muscovado) or when you eat white rice or other refined foods (bread, pastry, cookies) you lack the nutrients to assimilate carbs, namely B1, but not only. -
@Butter-Girl
Here is a breakdown of the breakfast you mentioned, using Cromometer.To me, this seems too heavy on the fat, both as a total amount eaten at one time, as well as a percentage of total calories in a mixed meal.
My best guess is that this would trigger an excess of FFA in the blood, especially if not using any supplement (Vit E, aspirin) to suppress FFA.
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@LucH said in If You Are Eating A Higher Saturated Fat Diet, Is It Really So Bad To Have FFA Circulating?:
You wrote:
“ If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism” So, for example, you ate 3 eggs cooked in a little butter and a sausage, but you also had coffee with cream and sugar…..=> A lot of sugar in your coffee then. 15 to 20 gr. Or 2 sticks (10 gr) and a Medjool date.
The sugar along with the protein from the eggs and sausage enter the cell and thus increase metabolism? The sugar with the protein is good, is what you are saying?=> You need a little sugar to avoid hypoglycemia. Proteins have the capacity to stimulate insulin too.
Your breakfast is ill-balanced so.
Poor quality protein with sausage. I eat pork sausage on an exceptional mode.
OK for eggs if they’re free farm eggs (enhanced omega-3). I never eat Be-2 or NL-2. Only Be-1 (free range) or Be-0 (organic) if the date is not good.
Be or NL are suffixes to establish the country where the eggs come from.
You need to balance with glycine when eating eggs. Rich in leucine. You could have a bone broth to avoid taking one supplement.
Leucine enhances growth (cancer) if you don’t manage well. Mind above 2.5 mg.
One egg contain 0.5 to 0.6 mg L-leucine.If you didn’t have the sugar with the meal, would it not be as good, meaning, as pro-metobolic? In my example, the sugar is not from fruit, but just straight sugar. Would this still be a pro-metabolic meal?=> Stressful without sugar.
When you have sugar table (cane or beet, even if brown, exception for muscovado) or when you eat white rice or other refined foods (bread, pastry, cookies) you lack the nutrients to assimilate carbs, namely B1, but not only.Ok, I get what you are saying. But you didn’t answer my question because I was originally asking about the process. Look back at the quote you posted which I then commented on:
“ If sugar (fruits and other sources) is used at the right time, at the right level (ratio, quantity and quality), in combination with proteins and good lipids (coconut, egg, poultry, free farm beef), the sugar association + breakfast proteins will equalize cortisol, will help sugar to enter the cell in good proportions, increase cellular metabolism”
Based on this quote, are you saying it’s about timing of having the sugar, ( fruit and other sources) and the right amount of sugar along with the other food stuff ( protein and fat) that gets the cellar metabolism process going……and equalize cortisol?
For me it’s a given that my example would be grass fed free range eggs. So that’s not what I’m asking.
You said “the breakfast is ill balanced”.
So, what does a balanced breakfast, according to you, according to peatyish metabolic principals,
what does that look like?
Give me an example. An example meal.
EDIT: Ok I went back over your response and you wrote:
“ A lot of sugar in your coffee then. 15 to 20 gr. Or 2 sticks (10 gr) and a Medjool date.”
So you are saying that in order for the example meal to be balanced, it needs a lot of sugar in the coffee?
Why? Is it the extra sugar that propels the other nutrients into the cell that then makes it more pro metabolic? -
- You don’t eat protein alone (meat) without having some carbs at the same meal.
Bad example: 2 eggs with a pork sausage at breakfast. - 2 eggs and one sausage are a bad combo.
Too much protein. If the sausage is more than 120 gr (4.5 oz.) What is above 35 g protein will be stored as fat.
40 gr protein if the sausage is 150 gr (6 oz.)
The omega-6 is already nearly at the maximum: 8.1 g if the sausage is 120 g. ratio PUFA 25/1. Bad when over 10/1. Target 4/1. - When eating eggs some glycine must be taken. Not obliged at the same time.
Eggs are rich in leucine. This combo brings 3.1 g leucine. Mind when over 2.5 g (for the whole day) (it stimulates growth => cancer). - How to act to correct the situation
- With adding glycine. A bone both will bring glycine. Or you take one tsp collagen in a shake (or water).
- How to balance the meal
2 fruits at the beginning + 2 free range eggs.
NB: Pork must remain exceptional, if you can afford.
Note: I have always a vegetable soup in the fridge when I need potassium (to balance K/Na), fibers or a satiety effect.
- You don’t eat protein alone (meat) without having some carbs at the same meal.
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@LucH
Ok thanks I see
