Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results

@LucH said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

@mostlylurking said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

I have recovered my health via high dose thiamine hcl (and magnesium glycinate). My digestion works great! My food allergies are all gone. My inflammation is a thing of the past. Many health issues have resolved, including scoliosis.

@mostlylurking
Great post. Thanks for the links.
Indeed a deficiency in thiamine has a huge impact on the brain-stomach axis through the vagus nerve.

@tk
There is a strict protocole to follow when supplementing thiamine. Read the links before starting.

I'm not clairvoyant, but I suspect that you are relying on Elliot Overton for this "strict protocol"? Although I've researched thiamine for almost 4 years, I've never come across a singular "strict protocol". Different "experts" have different protocols. But they have different favorite thiamine types and therefore different protocols.

Dr. Costantini's work came before Overton's. Dr. Costantini only used thiamine hcl, mainly by injection, but also orally and the conversion for dose amounts are provided on his Therapy page.

To summarize overton main ideas (nutritionist): B1 Thiamine protocol
Mega-dose of thiamine: beyond the resolution of "deficiencies"

By saturating the cell, you can bypass the low affinity and restore the enzymatic function in its normal state. (=> Justification for the use of megadoses). Some people do not suffer from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block (blocked enzymes)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2045-english-corner-anti-stress-neuro-protective-effects-of-thiamine-b1#29728

I really do think that reading Dr. Costantini's website is immensely helpful. Dr. Costantini successfully treated thousands of sick patients using high dose thiamine hcl. His Therapy info is here. His research papers are here. The patient videos are here. The FAQs are here.

Active and passive diffusion. Capacity of certain forms to cross the encephalic barrier. Supra-physiological contribution. Interaction (diagram) and example of dosage.

*) This could be a game changer!
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2016-this-could-be-a-game-changer#29423

Pharmacological dosage of thiamine
Target for high dosage:
B1 300 - 350 mg 2x/dy
B1 => Towards 750 mg 2x/dy (in 3 steps)
B1 => then 1 gr 2x/dy according to Dr. Costantini
His protocol (with potassium) :
https://highdosethiamine.org/hdt-therapy/
2 gr of B1 per day, before and after the lunch (Midday)
NB: We do not increase the dose until the discomfort has regressed in the event of side effects.

Read the references given in this post, particularly the references 10 - 11, notably Dr. Allil Overton.

You will need Mg. 380 - 450 mg of Mg element to activate thiamine.

Apparently, these doses pertain to thiamine hcl. Yes? Different forms require different doses. That said, until recently, research targeted thiamine hcl. It is the oldest form and is considered a "safe supplement".

Kindly note that Dr. Costantini's protocol dosage is based on the patient's body weight. It is not this set dosage for everyone. Dr. Costantini did not promote other supplements with the thiamine so I don't know whose protocol you are referring to regarding the "with potassium". It is my understanding that potassium can get depleted when high dosing thiamine; I simply drink orange juice for my potassium. Other people's potassium requirements may vary from my own. It is my understanding that potassium supplementation can be tricky. This is why I chose to use a food source for it.

I've gone to the Elliot Overton video that you linked below. Beginning at the 38 minute mark, information about thiamine hcl is provided. Please note that major improvement in response to thiamine hcl, taken orally, happens when the amount is higher (500mgs-1000mgs) as noted in the visual aids. Discussion regarding thiamine hcl getting into the system via "passive diffusion" at higher doses occurs around the 39 minute mark. I suspect this is why Dr. Costantini started his patients on high doses straight away. That said, I myself did take some time working up to my optimum dose of 1 gram, 2 times a day, mainly because I was going it alone without a doctor's help and I had not yet found Dr. Costantini's website.

One of the problems that I've found when researching thiamine is that different experts prefer different forms of thiamine and the different forms require different dosages. Dr. Costantini always used thiamine hcl; Elliot Overton, Dr. Chandler Marrs, and Dr. Derrick Lonsdale all prefer TTFD.

Again, whose instructions are these for the amount of magnesium? Perhaps I'm just having difficulty because of the way this is presented. It seems that you are flipping from Elliot Overton to Dr. Costantini then back to Elliot Overton?

Tolerance for magnesium supplementation is improved via thiamine supplementation.

Dosage of Thiamine HCL. Contraindication.

*) Original text (source)

Did you simply copy/paste from another site? Source?

How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON speaking (nutritionist) (multiplex) – Part 2 – Video 2:04:02
This is the second of two lectures I gave (Dr Overton speaking) to a group of medical/health professionals on the clinical application of high-dose vitamin B1. In this video I outline the difference between nutritional deficiency and the concept of "functional dependence". I then discuss the practical aspects of forming a protocol including: - Which form to use and why - How to dose for different conditions - When to use this therapy and when not to use this therapy - Managing patient side effects.
*) 10 hallmarks of the video

07.059”: Basic Definitions

08.21”: Nutritional Deficiency

08.40”: High Calorie Malnutrition

11.12”: Functional Dependency

29.49”: Symptoms of B1 Deficiency

32.22”: Therapeutic Use of B1

34.40”: Forms of Thiamine Can You Use

45.05”: Peripheral Neuropathy

47.12”: Disulfide Derivatives

49.47”: Heavy Metal Chelating Ability

Thank you for the link to the Elliot Overton video. There's 2 of these videos; together they are over 3.5 hours long. Elliot is very knowledgeable; so was Dr. Costantini.

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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

@mostlylurking Phenomenal post, thank you.

Low stomach acid is why I can't eat proper whole food meals. My gums receed rapidly even if I try eating a cooked steak, let alone rice or potatoes. Last time I had a cup of rice before bed I woke up and couldn't walk because my knees and legs were so arthritic and locked. Had to crawl to the bathroom and have my mum cook for me until late afternoon.

Have you read the articles that I posted earlier?

In 2017 when I had a full recovery and I was taking the supplements mentioned earlier in high doses I actually triggered my stomach acid to switch back on in realtime. It was like something was preventing my pancreas from functioning because it began with a burning pain in that area and the next day I had this substance in the same area that had actually seeped through to my waistband. I was excited when it happened because my ears had popped and my throat had cleared/opened up, until it kept just going and going - it was so hot I thought my ribcage was going to melt. I actually went to ER eventually. Around this time I had cleared the infection but at a big cost, because I didn't dial back the dosages and forced my body to clear it rapidly my kidneys were extremely sore and I was bedridden the entire following two weeks. Fortunately I emailed Ray and he made the perfect recommendation at that time which allowed me to avoid cooking.

What did you take to clear the infection? Dosages of what? Did you take antibiotics? If yes, do you remember which one(s)? How long ago was this?

You have motivated me to give b1 another try. Amazoniac had mentioned to me in the past to not take orally due to potentially feeding microbes - would a topical b vitamin solution suffice? Also does the dosage have to be so high?

Please read the articles I've posted earlier and in this response. A topical b vitamin solution is totally inadequate.

High doses of thiamine are anti-carcinogenic. In addition, low doses of thiamine are considered carcinogenic.

There is another possibility that you might consider. There is a sublingual thiamine mononitrate available that is absorbed under the tongue. You must follow the directions precisely or it won't work. I have no idea if this sublingual route is adequate for your situation. I am not a doctor and I don't play one on TV. What you have described here makes me think that you need medical intervention with thiamine by injection or by IV.

It is important to understand that thiamine deficiency is extremely serious. Wernicke's encephalopathy can turn into Korsakoff syndrome. Korsakoff syndrome is permanent brain damage.

I had Wernicke's encephalopathy fall of 2020. I managed to recover via high dose thiamine hcl, taken orally. It took 4 months.

Here are a few articles about thiamine and the microbiome:
https://hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-microbiome/
also:
https://hormonesmatter.com/harmful-effects-antibiotics-human-microbiome/
also:
https://hormonesmatter.com/gastrointestinal-disease-thiamine/

Likely I will also try topical magnesium and d3. Maybe even a tsp of pine pollen to try and drop my estrogen. Just worried about the potential allergenicity of the latter, I don't want to mess my gut up any further.

Sublingual D3 is a good option. Soaking in an epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) is helpful. Your liver needs thiamine in order to do its job of detoxing estrogen. Your liver function will improve from taking high dose thiamine.

Please read this article: https://www.mercuryfreekids.org/mercury101/2018/1/21/thiamine-saves

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@tk If you have Wernicke's encephalopathy, it is reversible. If you diddle around and don't address it, it will morph into Korsakoff syndrome.

You appear to be making your gut bacteria the prime concern; I'm more concerned about your brain.

LetTheRedeemed

@mostlylurking sick burn (jk)

@LetTheRedeemed said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

@mostlylurking sick burn (jk)

One problem that I personally experienced when severely thiamine depleted was my thought processes simply could not function. My head felt like it was stuffed with cotton. I could not think straight. Then I started listing to the side when trying to walk from the bed to the bathroom. I could not walk straight and kept running into the wall. It wasn't a fun time, especially since I had no idea what was wrong with me.

And I hurt all over. Lactic acidosis will to that to a person. I remembered Haidut had said (somewhere) that thiamine will lower lactic acid. That was my life line. I tried some, 300mgs of thiamine hcl dissolved in water. The response was fast (30-45 minutes) and astonishing. I'm just trying to throw someone a lifeline here.

LetTheRedeemed

@mostlylurking agreed.

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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

@mostlylurking Yeah, my brain does not function. My head feels empty and I have a kind of pressure in my forehead.

I've been there and done that. Are you still able to walk a straight line?

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience and I will finish the remaining articles, order some thiamine hcl and update you with how things progress. I hope it can be tolerated and offer some relief, even if it is not as significant as what you experienced.

Tips: Take the thiamine hcl with water only, never juice. Take it at least 30 minutes away from eating anything. I started with 300-350mgs, twice a day; mid morning, then mid afternoon. When you have done that for a few days with no negative effects, increase the dose some, maybe up to 500mgs, twice a day. Then increase again after maybe a week. Do read Dr. Costantini's Therapy page to discern what your "optimum" dose is and try to achieve that dose in time. Do read Dr. Costantini' FAQs. There's good common sense advice there.

At this stage diet wise I am okay to continue eating processed crap? I really don't know what else to do as I'm not digesting anything else.

Don't eat processed crap. It will make you sicker. Focus on nutrient dense food. Can you eat dairy? Eggs? Don't consume coffee or black tea. Keep sugars down; that said, I never gave up orange juice myself and did fine. Sugars/carbs deplete thiamine. Coffee & tea block it. Avoid polyunsaturated fats as they are poisonous. I drink a lot of milk with hydrolyzed gelatin, vanilla, and a little sugar in it. It's fast, easy, nutritious. If you can tolerate milk, it's a good convenience food. The hydrolyzed gelatin increases the protein amount; 1/8 cup = 11 grams of good digestible protein so it makes a 16 ounce glass of milk equal 27 grams of protein. You need at least 80 grams of protein daily; 100 grams would be better.

Get yourself some thiamine hcl and some magnesium glycinate. These are important.

Be gentle with yourself.

Let me know how it goes.

LetTheRedeemed

@tk have you tried progest-e just for the temporary symptom relief value?

@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:

I hope it can be tolerated and offer some relief, even if it is not as significant as what you experienced.

Don't be afraid of the thiamine hcl. It might lower your blood sugar which might make you simply hungry or it might make you light headed from the reduction in blood sugar. Do plan your next meal ahead of time so that you can eat after 30 minutes if you feel the need to. Simply eating something will change how you respond to the thiamine so you do have control and can change/moderate how you feel pretty quickly.

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LetTheRedeemed

@tk I get it. When you’re ready to dive into if you’re a good candidate for progesterone supplementation, that product is sold by Ray’s wife, based off his patent.

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