Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?
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Found the study on high dose vitamin A. It was posted by Haidut on ray peat forum
"This is a human study and as you can see it used up to 500,000 IU vitamin A daily for months for acne treatment without any serious signs of toxicity. Most doctors will warn you that vitamin A will cause liver issues, but as you can see this was not the case here."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6453848
"...Oral vitamin A (retinol) is generally not considered useful in the treatment of acne vulgaris. We conducted a study which showed that retinol was indeed ineffective at the usual doses of 50,000 to 100,000 IU daily. Retinol was highly efficacious in doses of 300,000 units for women and 400,000 to 500,000 units for men, toxicity was slight and limited mainly to skin (xerosis) and mucous membranes (cheilitis). The danger of hypervitaminosis A in this dosage range has been exaggerated. Retinol is a valuable drug for treating stubborn, severely inflammatory acne vulgaris. It is administered until the disease is brought under control, usually within three to four months. Then the dosage is progressively reduced relying on conventional drugs to keep the disease in abeyance."
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@Verdad most likely the simplest explanation, because androgens increase sebum production and vitamin A reduces it
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@Kvothe That place has decayed into one large advertisement for Garrett Smith. Every sentence written by the three power users is an attempt to steer him clients. Its a very transparent marketing scheme that betrays all of Peat's work. And the fact that they're very happy and eager to do that is all the more heinous and deplorable.
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@jwayne I'm still not 100% sure whether this is all a business deal or just Charles' boundless stupidity. You should never make the mistake an underestimate how remarkably stupid and gullible Charlie really is. I can definitely imagine him believing all this nonsense. Stupidity, combined with religious dogmatism, and a rotten character can result in all kinds of unexplainable behavior.
If it was all just a scheme to direct clients towards good guy Garrett Smith, then Charles should be able to see that his behavior and religious messages will put most people off even if they are curious about the idea. But again, this presupposes a normal level of intelligence which I doubt Charles posseses. -
I just had a small improvement in health from eating small bits of liver each day. Charlies detox 'program' really did a number on me. Fkin stupid. I must of had a copper deficiency from all those stupid supplements.
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@questforhealth What supplements were you taking?
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Zinc, molybdenum for 'copper toxicity'. My spine started to hurt....
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@questforhealth That sounds terrible! But I'm pretty sure it was just a "retinol detox event". <sarc>
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@Kvothe Charlie now mimics Garrett Smith like a clone personality. And has learned to take pleasure in slandering Ray Peat ("The Peat Diet feminizes men.", "...ruins lives", "..is toxic", " ...destroys the liver."). And then adds further remarks everyday ("The carrot diet is a suspect" [in cause of death.])
I would allow attributing the religious viewpoints to lack of intelligence whereas the hatred of Ray Peat is moreso a lack of psychological introspection.
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Maybe.... Haha...
What I find funny is Charlie never talks about having spiritual experiences, synchronicites, or anything like that at all. Despite all this talk of god...
I log onto the forum and in my feed there is almost always the answer to what is on my mind currently... Strange world.
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@questforhealth Because Charlie doesn't mean "God" but God qua repression as in the answer to the inevitable anxiety produced by the needs of intellectual labour. He has psychically repressed all uncertainty and pretended to himself to have hidden it by this word God. That's not the God that organized religions speak of. It's a sad but commonplace degeneration.
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@jwayne That makes sense. So much fun on Charlies forum... Not really.
At least I'm starting to smile again after eating a small slice of liver each day,
Also charlies supplements can in high doses block DHT..... A lot of them. Even zinc can block DHT. Need to be very careful.
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@Verdad True, but in all seriousness, a rational dose of vitamin A for long-term would be much lower. I think when you start using vitamin A in dosages that high it's more like a drug, and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but people are using it to treat certain conditions rather than filling nutritional requirements. I think the 1/4-1/2 pound of liver weekly puts most people in that "sweet spot" for vitamin A.
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@Kvothe said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
@jwayne I'm still not 100% sure whether this is all a business deal or just Charles' boundless stupidity. You should never make the mistake an underestimate how remarkably stupid and gullible Charlie really is. I can definitely imagine him believing all this nonsense. Stupidity, combined with religious dogmatism, and a rotten character can result in all kinds of unexplainable behavior.
If it was all just a scheme to direct clients towards good guy Garrett Smith, then Charles should be able to see that his behavior and religious messages will put most people off even if they are curious about the idea. But again, this presupposes a normal level of intelligence which I doubt Charles posseses.I err on the the side of boundless stupidity to be honest, lol. It's only when you look at Charlie the historical figure that the picture becomes clear to me. He hasn't always been riding Garrett's dick. Before the toxin A stuff he had already abandoned the forum's direction he just didn't make his opinions super well known. But it was in the writing. He was doing that weird fruit fast by that Dr. Morse guy. I just think he's a hypochondriac, and when, not if, but when he abandons this toxin A fad I'm going to be curious to see what the forum members do then lol.
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@Kvothe said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
It's bad. Gets you banned from raypeatforum.
nice one
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@Verdad said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
I've been taking about 90,000 units when I also supplement things that lower cortisol and increase androgens. If i don't take the vitamin A when i supplement these things i pretty reliably break out in acne.
I have not had any problems. According to the anti-vitamin A crowd I am just storing this in the liver and eventually it is going to get overloaded or something and dump into my body and kill me.
I'm very skeptical and I trust people like @haidut then the cultists of the anti-vitamin A movement
You are going to crash. Read youngsinatra posts on the old forum. He took VA for months, up to a year or so, felt amazing for a while. Then he crashed.
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@ZeroTron said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
Seen some evidence that vitamin A and iodine are synergistic. More A consumption = more Iodine needed. Iodine suppresses the thyroid when you have insufficient A but if sufficient A exists iodine actually causes more thyroid activity.
Anecdotally, this seems to be true.
This is interesting with liver being high in selenium, an iodine co-factor. But Ray didn't like iodine supplementation. Personally I've used it and seemed to do OK. It didn't blow my thyroid up.
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Mercola today has an article about vitamin A deficiency.
STORY AT-A-GLANCE
A 1925 study by Wolbach and Howe found that vitamin A deprivation in rats leads to keratinization of epithelial tissues, affecting various body parts including the respiratory and genitourinary tracts, eyes, and glands
Vitamin A deficiency resulted in serious health issues such as gland atrophy, growth arrest, emaciation, and ultimately death
The study suggested that some cases of cancer could be linked to the accumulation of keratinized cells in organs due to vitamin A deficiency, challenging the notion that infection and inflammation are primary causes of disease
Infections and inflammations observed in the study were consequences of gland and organ degeneration due to vitamin A deficiency, not the cause of the initial epithelial changes
The negative effects of vitamin A deprivation were successfully reversed by adding butter to the diet, highlighting the importance of including vitamin A-rich foods such as butter from grass fed cows for maintaining optimal health
