The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols
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@DavidPS said in The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols:
Returning to "to peel or not to peel" (that is the question), industrial distributed apples have a new fungical coating to extend their shelf life. The FDA designated it, known as Apeel, as organic and it does not have to be identified on the product. As always, let the buyer beware.
Thanks for sharing! A new rabbithole...it's wild how complicated the decision of peeling an apple (or not) can be, indeed an existential question.
Apeel contains mono and diglycerides of (vegetable) fatty acids, which is nothing new. This is E471 in Europe, which is contained in chocolate ,meat, cream bread and more. It shouldnt be too health concerning. I think it even occurs naturally during lypolisis.
But, most E471 is made from genetically modified soy beans, that already sounds more concering. And this article (in german) says it can cause allergic reactions in some people.
Wikipedia says this:
" A French study published in 2024 concluded that a higher intake of E471 increases the risk of cancer by 15%, particularly breast cancer (24%) and prostate cancer (46%).[7]"--> coincidentally both breast and prostate cancer are highly estrogen-driven, so maybe there is an estrogenic activity here, which makes me lean more towards peeling my apples again.
If you want to look at it from a conspiratorial angle, it doesnt look good either. Bill Gates and the WEO both supported it.
Is there anyway of knowing if a company uses apeel? Maybe it's the glowing fatty layer on some apples that always seemed suspicious to me?
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E471 on health:
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Effect on CVD:
" Additionally, higher intakes of monoglycerides and diglycerides of fatty acids (E471 and E472) were associated with higher risks of all outcomes. Among these emulsifiers, lactic ester of monoglycerides and diglycerides of fatty acids (E472b) was associated with higher risks of CVD (1.06, 1.02 to 1.10, P=0.002) and cerebrovascular disease (1.11, 1.06 to 1.16, P<0.001), and citric acid ester of monoglycerides and diglycerides of fatty acids (E472c) was associated with higher risks of CVD (1.04, 1.02 to 1.07, P=0.004) and coronary heart disease (1.06, 1.03 to 1.09, P<0.001). " -
Effect on cancer:
"Higher intakes of mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids (FAs) (E471) were associated with higher risks of overall cancer (HR high vs. low category = 1.15; 95% CI [1.04, 1.27], p-trend = 0.01), breast cancer (HR = 1.24; 95% CI [1.03, 1.51], p-trend = 0.04), and prostate cancer (HR = 1.46; 95% CI [1.09, 1.97], p-trend = 0.02). In addition, associations with breast cancer risk were observed for higher intakes of total carrageenans (E407 and E407a) (HR = 1.32; 95% CI [1.09, 1.60], p-trend = 0.009) and carrageenan (E407) (HR = 1.28; 95% CI [1.06, 1.56], p-trend = 0.01). "
Only a correlation, but still worrying.
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From what Ive read in germany at least two major supermarkets use Apeel (EDEKA and Netto). I actually buy my apples from EDEKA.
They are not required by law to declare Apeel usage, but on some fruits they added an apeel sticker, because they actually use this for advertising it as sustainable etc. (https://verbund.edeka/verantwortung/handlungsfelder/sortiment/apeel-produkte/)
Another way this can be spotted as the price, as apeel products should be a lot more expensive.
Acoording to this article (in german) from august 23, apeel is not beeing used in europe currently, at least on fruits where the peel is eaten, not so in the USA, here it is already beeing used on apples.
But theres more: apeel is not the only company there is a brithish company Agricoat which uses "Nature Seal" , known as E473 (german supermarket Rewe uses it), which seems to be more safe, but is also made from soy oil and potentially genetically modified.
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@CreakyJoints said in The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols:
Chocolate is also rich in procyanidin B-2, isn't it? I'm not sure if you'll remember this, but there was a user on RPF who claimed drinking store-bought chocolate milk did a lot to ameliorate his hair loss. I can't remember any further details, but perhaps this is another dot you've connected already?
Yes, apples and cocoa are basically the only foods that contain appreciable amounts of pro-B2.
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@CreakyJoints Interesting. When I was a child I also couldnt stand the peel on apples. But good to know that it does not have to be the pesticides.
Yes, usually polyphenol content varies a lot. I have identified a band of apple juice that gives me a similar effect to the supplement so I buy this one a lot. But generally I dont stress about that too much.
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@questforhealth anyone else have an opinion on this? i always thought the same. even if procyanidin does work for hair loss i'm not that interested if it just works through being anti-DHT
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@hypercashoidism said in The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols:
@questforhealth anyone else have an opinion on this? i always thought the same. even if procyanidin does work for hair loss i'm not that interested if it just works through being anti-DHT
Have you read this thread ? lol
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@Mauritio i'm still not sure since i remember reading that 'theory of everything' reddit post a while back which theorised that procyanidin works through increasing intracellular degradation of DHT through the increase of an enzyme i forgot the name of. In that case i'm not sure if that's something i want, i'm more interested in better eyebrows and facial hair which more DHT breakdown would antagonise
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@hypercashoidism said in The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols:
@Mauritio i'm still not sure since i remember reading that 'theory of everything' reddit post a while back which theorised that procyanidin works through increasing intracellular degradation of DHT through the increase of an enzyme i forgot the name of. In that case i'm not sure if that's something i want, i'm more interested in better eyebrows and facial hair which more DHT breakdown would antagonise
Balding is a metabolic disease. And this thread offers 10 different mechanisms on how procyanidin helps with that, if that's not enough and you rather rely on some post you read some time ago that you vaguely remember, then I dont know what to tell you.
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@Mauritio i'd like to believe it would work but those 10 things may do less for the hair growth i want than higher DHT would. i like to look at everything from all angles, 100 benefits may be outweighed by 1 downside
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@Mauritio are you still experimenting with apples / procyanidin-B2?
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@Gaston Not really. I suspect that they might be responsible for my crazY hormone test results. But thats a wild Speculation. I take theh about 1/Week still.
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio I've been applying this product to my scalp for almost 2 months and it seems to be having a positive effect on hair growth, at least in the temple area.
https://tokibotanicals.com/apple-skin-15-procyanidin-b2-organic-extract/
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@Gaston nice, how do You dissolve it?
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
15ml glass dropper bottle
1/32 tsp of powder = 135mg
~15ml distilled water (fully dissolved)
= 20mg PB2 = 0.13% solution/
1/16 tsp of powder = 270mg
~15ml distilled water (not fully dissolved)
~15ml vodka (fully dissolved)
40mg PB2 = 0.26%The study I saw on procyanidin B2 for hair used a 1% strength procyanidin B2 solution. But this apple skin powder has additional polyphenols and procyanidins in it other than just B2, so it might be comparably "strong."
https://img.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/files/base/allured/all/image/2020/06/ct.CT_116_12_061_09.pdf
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@Gaston Thanks!
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@Gaston
I'm rereading the study you posted.
And both procyanidins are basically as effective as minoxodil when both combined as in the supplement you linked, one can assume that it is even more effective.
The images are pretty convincing .Compound ---------- Growth area
Procyanidin B2- 69.6%
Procyanidin C1 - 78.3%
Minoxodil 1% - 81.2%
Control group - 40%"The group to which 1% procyanidin
B**-2** had been applied showed an extensive growth area of 69.6% ± 21.8% (average ±
SD); the group to which 1% procyanidin C-1 had been applied showed an extensive
growth area of 78.3% ± 7.6% (average ±
SD); the group to which 1% minoxidil had
been applied showed an extensive growth
area of 81.2% ± 10.5% (average ± SD)."
They even included a human study where they applied Procyanidin twice daily at the scalp at a 1% solution dissolved in alcohol.
It outperformed the control group in every metric. Hair density was almost 100 times more increased than in the control group .
Each men got a total of 20mg PB2 on their scalp daily. So that is something we could aim for.
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@Gaston why not combine the procyanidins with NMN/ Vitamin B3?
Since NMN has also been shown to be as effective as minoxodil in this study .If you add some glucose as per Peats recommendation you should have a very potent hair tonic.
I'll order the product you use since my polyphenols contain fillers and some NMN powder (I want to be as close to the actual study),and then I'll give it a shot!
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio said in The pro-metabolic effects of apple polyphenols:
@Kvothe Interestig.
To peel or not to peel?I peeled my apple for years because I read a study that showed lower pesticide content in the flesh than the peal but similar vitamin C and polyphenol content (I think they just looked at a single one).
But the peel contains an interesting molecule called ursolic acid which has anti-serotonin effects and also contains the most pectin, which helps with bile excretion.
So I stopped peeling for now.The skin of every fruit IS the insecticide. Eating it is congruent with the idea of Rays carrot salad.
Sugar plus a mild antibiotic.
I eat a different colored apple everyday! So many beautiful ones! -
I've been applying the apple skin powder for almost 5 months. I am continuing to see some temple regrowth, but not enough regrowth around the entirety of the scalp for me to proclaim any miracles as of yet. I will continue with the application until I reach 12 months. This has been the forumula over the past couple months:
15ml vodka
1/16 tsp apple skin powder
1/32 tsp niacinamideUsed over the span of a day or two. I could probably mix into a larger bottle--I would think that the vodka would keep the solution safe fresh for at least a few days. I may add some glucose to it and see how much of it will dissolve. I apply glucose to my scalp on an irregular basis; the problem with it is that it leaves my hair in an unpleasant condition that is stiff and sticky. The problem with applying the apple skin powder is that it discolors the scalp purple and red and also temporarily darkens the hair. I am able to put up with this issue because I live a semi-hermetic lifestyle, but most people will not be able to deal with the discoloration.
