Any experiences with DHT?
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@saturnmissiles said in Any experiences with DHT?:
A lot of people would mention on the old forum that full replacement/supraphysiological TD test wouldn’t cause the same level of shutdown or need for PCT but is this really the case? Seems like wishful thinking even if there probably is a substantial difference via half-life not having a constant stream from injected esters. Curious what kind of cycle time/PCT would be appropriate for it (enclomiphene or would you have to pin something like HCG, etc)?
I love the feeling of high DHT but from experience with the usual idealabs stuff I think I would need (as the juice forum BBs say) something “wet” with a dry substance like DHT unless I was just taking a few milligrams. Transdermal test in theory provides both.
Not a lot of people, just me after experimenting for years with it and spending thousands of euros to understand what happens upon discontinuation.
It doesn't, indeed, lead to any suppression.
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@Hando-Jin said in Any experiences with DHT?:
I haven't read of anybody using it due to difficulty obtaining it. Any users out there? What has been your experience?
DHT is just as easily found as any other steroid from traditional sellers.
Mine from PPL just tested at 98% purity.You get blunted emotions compared to T and not much muscle growth. It's pretty flattening from a physical and a mental standpoint.
Makes your face chiseled, that's about the only benefit.Still feels a ton better than Proviron.
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@Santosh did you have it tested at an independent lab like Janoshik?
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@Santosh great to see you here! I have always followed your experimentation with great interest!
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It seems that for most people, the transdermal application leads to a high enough DHT conversion to cancel out any increases in estrogen. Not for me, but most people. Also, if you're using it with DHT, then I don't see why you would need an AI. But you can buy exemestane (30x12.5mg) for ~$40 pills locally (assuming you're in the US).
I personally don't see a need to use HCG. I just use a bit of preg and maybe some DHEA and P4. To be fair, I'm not super consistent with the T, and I think I don't raise my levels high enough to where I lose most of DHEA and p4 production.
@skylark said in Any experiences with DHT?:
So for now I might just play around with very low doses of T, just to get a feel for the hormone rather than achieve any results.
Good plan.
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@pannacottas said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@Santosh did you have it tested at an independent lab like Janoshik?
Yes
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Extreme lucidity after 15mg DHT + 5mcg T3.
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Best hormone. DHT > all others.
Clarity, energy, estrogen reduction, decreased inflammation and autoimmune like no other hormone.
It's not magic, but it's damn good.
It's even more helpful when you're actually sick, while T is much more hit-or-miss
How do you like it compared to Proviron ?
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
It seems that for most people, the transdermal application leads to a high enough DHT conversion to cancel out any increases in estrogen. Not for me, but most people. Also, if you're using it with DHT, then I don't see why you would need an AI. But you can buy exemestane (30x12.5mg) for ~$40 pills locally (assuming you're in the US).
I personally don't see a need to use HCG. I just use a bit of preg and maybe some DHEA and P4. To be fair, I'm not super consistent with the T, and I think I don't raise my levels high enough to where I lose most of DHEA and p4 production.
@skylark said in Any experiences with DHT?:
So for now I might just play around with very low doses of T, just to get a feel for the hormone rather than achieve any results.
Good plan.
This is where things can get wonky to me. I will admit I'm no expert in hormones or anything of the matter, but I don't perceive DHT (at least in dosages below 100mgs) to be a very good anti-estrogen. You need to take enough DHT that you're actually suppressing the hypothalamus so that endogenous estrogen can't be created. Without that, it's very possible DHT will just lower SHBG enough to allow more free testosterone. Testosterone, as well all should know, can be easily converted into E2. I think Derek from more plates more dates could give a much better idea. But I remember him saying when someone was blasting T without an aromatase inhibitor he recommended taking like 150mgs of Mast with the T. So I think when we experiment with the neurological benefits of low-dose DHT (<100mgs) we probably aren't doing much to our estrogen, maybe a slight antagonistic effect to the receptor, but aromatase isn't really effected.
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I should've stated Mast is also stronger than bioidentical DHT as well. So not sure what the equivalent dosage would be for normal DHT.
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@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Best hormone. DHT > all others.
Clarity, energy, estrogen reduction, decreased inflammation and autoimmune like no other hormone.
It's not magic, but it's damn good.
It's even more helpful when you're actually sick, while T is much more hit-or-miss
How do you like it compared to Proviron ?
Haven't tried. I have tried Mast, though, and that was definitely interesting and different. Obnoxiously strong morning wood and erections, and I did see what people meant by mood benefits from Mast.
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Best hormone. DHT > all others.
Clarity, energy, estrogen reduction, decreased inflammation and autoimmune like no other hormone.
It's not magic, but it's damn good.
It's even more helpful when you're actually sick, while T is much more hit-or-miss
How do you like it compared to Proviron ?
Haven't tried. I have tried Mast, though, and that was definitely interesting and different. Obnoxiously strong morning wood and erections, and I did see what people meant by mood benefits from Mast.
Have tried normal DHT as well? I've been curious to here people's testimonies on how masteron compares to normal dht. I have a small baggie of Mast P but never used it.
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Best hormone. DHT > all others.
Clarity, energy, estrogen reduction, decreased inflammation and autoimmune like no other hormone.
It's not magic, but it's damn good.
It's even more helpful when you're actually sick, while T is much more hit-or-miss
How do you like it compared to Proviron ?
Haven't tried. I have tried Mast, though, and that was definitely interesting and different. Obnoxiously strong morning wood and erections, and I did see what people meant by mood benefits from Mast.
Mast was very disappointing, even when used in high doses as a transdermal in a Benzyl alcohol solution.
So far only testosterone gives me good emotional and sexual feelings.I might give Tren base a try.
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@Santosh Interesting about mast, thanks for your input. DHT improves my emotional and sexual state provided I don't take too much of it. The GABAgeric effects make me lethargic if I get too much. Androsterone is worse about this than DHT in my opinion. I guess since Mast is more powerful I would venture to guess you can arrive at the lethargic state more quickly.
Normal trandermal T does work the best for me as well, but I do notice the excessive estrogenic effects if I continually use it for much longer than a few days. I don't like many of the pharma aromatase inhibitors (autoimmune risks) so I've been using Inhibit-E to control the side effects. It works, but I hate how dirty it is. They put fucking silicon dioxide in it. Currently searching for suitable replacements.
A word of caution about tren, the nandrolones will agonize 5-ht4 receptors, so it's probably best to take something like lysine or chamomile extract to help deter some of the cardiovascular implications.
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I think most people here would benefit from @haidut's comments on underground lab steroids:
The 5a-androstanedione (not DHT) is banned apparently. A few vendors that contacted me to pitch their steroids said so over email. They all claimed to have DHT but when I did a little digging a few 'roid forums claimed bioidentical steroids people bought from China are apparently heavily contaminated with nickel and cadmium. Google for "China steroid contamination heavy metals". Here is the most recent link from 2017.
The Dangers of Contaminated Underground Steroids | IronMag Bodybuilding BlogI, personally, would not ingest or administer topically any chemical that comes from a foreign vendor unless it undergoes rigorous testing in a lab I trust. Maybe I am just paranoid but I know people who got serious liver and kidney damage from lead and aluminum poisoning present in SARMs they bought from foreign vendors.
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Dammit, I had a response typed out and I accidentally closed the tab and it didn't keep it for whatever reason.
I'm not sure what you're arguing for, though.
Topical androgens are generally less estrogenic than injected ones, and that's mainly due to the DHT. Sure it's not super potent, but it's still superior, IMO.
Even if you suppress yourself a bit, you will still exert a more potent androgen pressure on your tissues than without the DHT. So at the end of the day, it's still a win. The stories of people liking T + DHT instead of T + AI, is partial proof of that (although it's not fair, since they're on complete replacement)
The doses I've been using almost total to the 150mg you mention, as well. I do notice suppression at that dose, but like I said, I still come out on top.
I'll put it this way, I'd rather be partially suppressed from a high DHT level, versus a high estrogen level.
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@Mulloch94 said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Have tried normal DHT as well? I've been curious to here people's testimonies on how masteron compares to normal dht. I have a small baggie of Mast P but never used it.
Yessir. I've been using it probably for almost a solid 9 months at this point at a dose of 10-25mg a day.
The Mast didn't seem worth it, and I probably won't use it unless I run out of DHT. For my situation, the DHT is exactly what I need.
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@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Mast was very disappointing, even when used in high doses as a transdermal in a Benzyl alcohol solution.
So far only testosterone gives me good emotional and sexual feelings.I might give Tren base a try.
What exactly are you searching for?
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
I'm not sure what you're arguing for, though.
I don't exactly know, my thoughts were a bit scattered in this thread.
I guess my first point is I've seen a lot of testimonies from different folk complaining when they used DHT it gave them low estrogen symptoms. Well, the first thing I'd like to ask these people is how much of it did they take? Because "crashing your E2" with just pure DHT would take a rather high dose sustained over several days if not weeks. What's more likely - in the short-term anyways - is they've shifted their ratio of aromatizable androgens in favor of the 5-ar androgens. This will cause a dramatic increase in GABA at the expense of glutamate. If you look up the symptoms of excessive GABA production several of the side effects mimic some of the low E2 symptoms. This could possibly and partially be alleviated by adding P5, DHEA, and maybe even d-aspartic for the NMDA activity. Although I haven't seen this explored much in literature or people experimenting on themselves.
Another point is I'm not particularly a fan of aromatase inhibiting drugs. I know there's some belief that exemestane is comparatively safer than anastrozole or letrozole, but being suicidal means if you accidentally fuck up it's going to take a while to feel normal again. So I'm still hesitant about even trying that. So I've been liking this idea of mixing T with something like DHT, Mast, Proviron, etc. to help control the estrogen. However when you look at what some of the people like Derek and Leo say about this topic, these non-aromatizable androgen don't actually act on the aromatase. Rather there's some antagonistic effect on the transcription (DNA) and receptor levels. Meaning estrogen is still being created (unless you're not taking any testosterone, and your taking enough DHT to cause shutdown) but it apparently doesn't matter because your overall androgenicity is higher than your estrogenicity.
If this is true, then great. But I also question the overall inertness of the estrogen when it's still being created from T but it's just not causing any E related symptoms. Like, how do we know this won't cause health problems in the long run?
Have you seen this video before? Currently it seems to me that if someone were looking for the safest long-term TRT protocol with the least amount of "unanswered questions" I would think pinning the lowest possible yet effective dose of testosterone would be best. And preferably something like testosterone-propionate, not cypionate or enanthate. Because the latter esters would keep blood levels elevated longer and more susceptible to aromatase. And I'm not sure how this would translate over into topical methods. I haven't tried test-propionate topically, but regular test base at 100mgs will give me estrogen symptoms if I don't take something to counter it. But I'm wondering if I applied 100mgs of test-p once every other day if this wouldn't happen.
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Mast was very disappointing, even when used in high doses as a transdermal in a Benzyl alcohol solution.
So far only testosterone gives me good emotional and sexual feelings.I might give Tren base a try.
What exactly are you searching for?
The ultimate steroid that would give me the most masculine face, oily skin, insane libido.
I think either tren base in DMSO or Mtren in DMSO might do the job.
