Why is thiamine giving me eczema?
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A bit of background info: My diet primarily consists of sugared milk in addition to eggs and meat. I can't afford to eat as much fruit as I need to, and starch heavily disagrees with me (I probably have SIBO), so I'm reliant on white sugar. I've been throwing caution to the wind and trying to supplement thiamine for some time now.
Every time I introduce thiamine, I develop dry skin on my hands that progresses over a few days into red inflamed patches, bleeding cracks and splits on my knuckles, between my fingers and on top of my wrist. Stopping thiamine puts it back into remission.
Thiamine also negatively effects my stool quality, making things soft and messy. I typically have Bristol 2 or 3 stool when not taking thiamine.
I've tried four different forms of thiamine. I've tried thiamine hydrochloride, thiamine nitrate, benfotiamine, and TTFD. The result is always the same.
Any ideas of why this might be happening and what I can do to stop it?
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@Vex you might be deficient in some other vitamins and minerals and ramping up sugar metabolism by taking B1 is amplifying this deficiency. Or there could be bad ingredients in your supplement, look at the “other ingredients” on your product and make sure you’re avoiding gums silica dioxide and maybe some other shity fillers.
Lastly B1 does better with some of the other b vitamins in concert.
Search around on the forum for B complex threads…
Good luck. -
@Vex said in Why is thiamine giving me eczema?:
Any ideas of why this might be happening and what I can do to stop it?
High dose thiamine (100 mg) is not adapted when suffering from histaminose, nor 50 mg for another reason (cell growth stimulation: cancer), in a usual way. So, 10 or 100 mg would be fine for most people.
When taking B1, we need B2, not always every day.
There is interaction between B1 B2 and B3.
When taking high dose (HD) caffeine, combined with a candida albicans, it neutralizes the process, the enzyme that degrades thiamine (Th II).
Need some ascorbic acid to inhibit this process.
Excerpt:
La thiaminase II est d'origine bactérienne (principalement Bacillus, Candida et Oospora) et décompose la vitamine libre, mais pas le TPP, en composants pyrimidine et thiazole. Les facteurs thermostables d'inactivation de la thiamine d'origine végétale sont plus répandus, par exemple les substances polyphénoliques telles que les flavonoïdes et les dérivés catécholiques présents dans le thé fermenté, les fougères, les patates douces et les noix de bétel et, en petites quantités, dans d'autres feuilles, fruits et racines.If you suspect SIBO, I'd suspect and manage as if I were suffering from SIFO. F stands for fungus.
When I see the kind of food you mainly eat, your microbiome is unbalanced.
No combination of HD TH with Cu supplement. (4)
Cu is required to optimize DAO enzyme, used for degradation of histamine.
I take 1 000 000 DAO 2x/d for histamine problems.
Need to know which food is high (HD) in histamine. Not only H3 but F3 too. H3 brings a HD histamine. L3 set Histamine free (liberator).If you suffer from eczema it could be a sign of overloaded liver. You can't get rid of toxins. But it could be the sign you can't assimilate / digest HD milk. Your level lactase is limited.
In conclusion, I'd deal with SIBO/SIFO before trying to change my foodstuff.
See Dr. D'oro for info. I can give a link if desired.- Thiamin: Physiology
R. Bitsch, in Encyclopedia of Food and Health, 2016
Thiaminases and Other Antithiamine Factors
- Thiamin: Physiology
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List of incompatible drugs and molecules in cases of histaminose
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3925736
(Liste unverträglicher Medikamente (DAO-Hemmer)Büttiker (same PDF with reference on histamine active substance)
https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/therapy_medicaments.html#qbHistamine liberators
Many agents in medicaments (active substances as well as additives) have the negative effect that they cause mast cell degranulation which leads to release of histamine and other mast cell mediators. They have to be avoided where ever possible according to the agreement with your physician.
DAO-Inhibitors
Many agents in medicaments have the negative effect that they are diamine oxidase inhibitors or inhibitors of other histamine degrading enzymes. They have to be avoided where ever possible according to the agreement with your physician.
List of incompatible active substances in medicaments
This list needs to be completed...
Set in excerpt (LucH): Acetyl-cysteine (NAC), aspirin, many barbiturates, bile acid, codeine, gelatin (bone broth), NSAID, quinine, thiamin and tyramine. -
@LucH said in Why is thiamine giving me eczema?:
When taking B1, we need B2, not always every day.
There is interaction between B1 B2 and B3.Need some ascorbic acid to inhibit this process.
Thanks for the response, @LucH. I'll try dropping my B1 dose below 100mg. Do you have any recommended doses for B2, B3 and ascorbic acid?
I'd suspect and manage as if I were suffering from SIFO.
How would you approach treating SIFO?
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@Vex said in Why is thiamine giving me eczema?:
I'll try dropping my B1 dose below 100mg.
Not just below 100 mg.
In general, for most people:
10 mg or 100 mg (or more with staples and cofactors).
No 50 mg dose as often seen because it stimulates cell growth. > 100 is OK if ... if there isn't any problem.
I take a B complex 50 mg but only twice a week. Not every day. -
@Vex said in Why is thiamine giving me eczema?:
How would you approach treating SIFO?
First we have to get rid of candidiasis because it will affect what you can eat and the kind of supplement. No probiotics now.
Make the test with a glass of water.
If contaminated, when you spit, saliva will plunge like on the photo (filament). -
@Vex said in Why is thiamine giving me eczema?:
How would you approach treating SIFO?
First I'll get informed. If you don't choose the right way, you'll reinforce the survived bacteria able to hide behind a biofilm.
See Dr. D'oro site to learn how to manage with SIBO/SIFO.
=> Google Search (or see below): Dr. D'Oro and SIFO.
(in 3 parts; translator needed, doc in French).
I've dealt with histamine intolerance and have treated as if I were touched by SIBO.
I can give a link to my diary on my forum if desired. But first get informed.See here too:
Useful link
*) SIBO: the invasion of bad bacteria in your intestine
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1131-sibo-pullulation-bacterienne#11611
NB: In French (translator needed).
=> Key Ideas- The microbiota is the center of our immunity.
- If you regularly suffer from bloating, belching, flatulence, gastric reflux, abdominal pain and/or diarrhea, or even unexplained fatigue, most of these problems originate in the small intestine, where there is an excess of bacteria (SIBO).
There is a close link between bacterial overgrowth and celiac disease (irritable bowel syndrome or IBS). - SIBO, FODMAPs, gluten sensitivity, lactose intolerance, etc., all contribute to low-grade inflammation of the intestinal mucosa. However, low-grade inflammation weakens leaky gut. This opens the door to an autoimmune reaction.
- Understand the process that leads to intestinal permeability.
