Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?
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@Kvirion said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
I assume that the problem is more complex than a one-dimensional left-right axis.
It certainly is. In fact, I've increasingly been developing a new opinion that the left-right axis means essentially nothing in today's sociopolitical culture. The waters become even more muddy when you throw political parties in the ring too. As meaningless as the left-right axis is, democrats and republicans are even more meaningless. For example, all American democrats are right-wingers. More or less. Take all their social culture BS out of the equation for a second, because being a leftist has nothing to do with any of that. Do democrats support labor or do they support capital? The answer is definitively the latter. Republicans, also right-wingers, but far more radicalized in the sense they have a strong push toward national independence, which is naturally at odds with the establishments quest to further the globalization of capital.
Naturally MAGA bros lack the "intellectual refinement" that their Occupy Wall Street predecessors had in the early 2000s. But that's too be expected, the OWS movement was mostly anarchists, smart ones too, like David Graeber. As much as I disagree with Graeber's economics, he understood power dynamics very well. The MAGA movement doesn't understand power dynamics well, but they do recognize corruption and know how to point at it, lol. The big difference is anarchists did it in the 2000s out of loyalty to labour. MAGA's anti-globalism is out of loyalty to the nation-state. In this light, we could see the democrats as being a party slightly more capitalistic than even the republicans. America doesn't really have a left-wing option. And since America doesn't recognize absolute property rights, they don't have a libertarian option either.
So this two headed axis is very useless in my opinion. We're not even getting into all these little micro nuances either. Like urban liberals vs rustic blues. As soon as you get out of any major Big City shit-hole, most people, even democrats, own guns. Likewise, I've seen examples of traditionally very conservative practices like church becoming woke for LGBTQ or other groups in the inner cities. What were seeing here, in my opinion, is that environment is superseding anything people believe politically. And I think this is where bioenergetics slips into the equation. Might also be why someone like Ray Peat was never really pinned down by a particular political ideology. There's this old saying that "culture is upstream from politics." If that's true, and by all accounts it is, then bioenergetics is the source.
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@CO3 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
@VehmicJuryman
Incredible the way in which you slander Christ, saying he and his flock were dependent on welfare from the rich. You are already implying it here; you pharisees would be the first to judge such a way of living where property was shared. Disgusting.You are more of an opponent to his ideas than maybe anyone else, because you fake your allegiance to him and even use it to justify the satanic order of things in the world.
The point is the mask you call your 'religious' views are downstream of your covetousness. You proved it in this thread but are too blind to see it.
Exposing your ignorance as usual.
Luke 8: "1 Soon afterward, Jesus began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means."
Other wealthy benefactors of Jesus mentioned in the Gospel include Joseph of Arimathea and Mary of Bethany.
There is genuinely no ideology more antithetical to Christianity than Marxism. No ideology has ever harmed as many people or sent as many people to hell. It is an ideology of pure hatred, envy, resentment, atheism, and murder. Nobody has killed more Christians than Marxists.
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@CO3 I'm aware that Marxists have quoted the Bible out of context to support their hateful ideology. Satan quotes the Bible too. Btw, you're quoting Acts which happened after Christ left earth so claiming Christ lived the same way is speculative at best. It's also very different from Marxism - Marx didn't believe in voluntarily forming communities that shared property, he believed in mass murdering and terrorizing everyone in society who owned property.
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@VehmicJuryman You clearly did not know. Now the rats are fleeing the ship truly, slandering not only Christ but 'their' apostles too. The disloyalty is disgusting! No wonder Nazis were and are so partial to neo-paganism. Not one single principle between all of the people that come into this thread to make a fool of themselves.
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Guys, I'm only gonna do this one time because at this point someone with brains has to help you guys; how about - in this topic you guys shifted to because you were having trouble arguing what was at hand - maybe bring up that the USSR was an atheist nation and repressed organized religion with an iron fist instead of bringing up 'we who shall not work shall not eat' and 'unto every man according to what he needs'. Think!
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I found a wonderful explanation of the difference between the so called Left and the Right which explains why this Ray Peat community is so far right!
This is from a recent Tucker Carlson interview of Jake Logan, a trucker who hauls hazardous materials:
Tucker [00:27:41] Well, yeah, because you keep the country alive. I wonder you really get the sense. And maybe the sentence that you just told us about in Colorado was an example of that. But the people who run things in Washington and New York and LA don't like you. They don't like the way you look. They don't like your race. They don't like your gender. They don't like your attitudes. Why the hostility? What do you think you ever did to them?Jake Logan [00:28:08] I think that they, this is just my personal opinion, but I believe that liberals are required to be lockstep with whatever directive comes down from on high. Yeah. From the left. Now conservatives. This is one thing that I love about being conservative, because we don't have to agree with our leaders, and we don't even have to agree with each other. Liberals are required to be lockstep with everything the left says, or they will suffer the consequences. I don't understand why, but that's just the way it is. Conservatives we have, we can think for ourselves. I am a huge Trump supporter. You know, dyed in the wool Trump supporter. I don't always agree with President Trump, but I tell you what, I have never seen a fighter as strong as President Trump. And I am happy to cast my ballot for that man this coming November.
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Consider the difference between this forum and the all new and definitely not better RayPeatForum.com and you'll get it. -
woahhhhh ... i 'm gonna have to think about things.
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@mostlylurking Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.
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@CO3 "You clearly did not know." Based on what?
This is an embarrassingly feeble line of argument, frankly. I have in fact already pointed out that the USSR was an atheistic murderous regime that viciously hated Christianity, as you've now acknowledged. You're the only one who keeps harping on the fact that marxists misuse Bible verses. This doesn't disprove that marxism is antithetical to Christianity. If you want proof of that, here are some more Bible verses for you:
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind."
"You shall not murder."
"You shall not steal."All moral precepts that marxists delight in breaking, which contradict the very heart of marxist thought.
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“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” (Rom 16:17)
Block the commie
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@CO3 What's interesting to me is that the most advanced form of Marxism, proceding from Marxist-Leninism to Maoism, is now Xi Jinping Thought that currently is the state doctrine of the PRC, and objectively of the most successful economies in human history over the last few decades, howsoever deviated it is from traditional Marxism via Deng's Reforms and Opening Up.
Anyways, China has no organized religion but it does have a stream of Taoism-Confucianism which are respectively the esoterism-exoterism of a longstanding metaphysical tradition. This is, to give one example, a far more interesting field of research (than debating the USSR) because its ongoing and relatively unexplored, and also requires a theoretical background.
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@jwayne it has nothing to do with marxism though? where did you even get the idea? You literally think they're communist because of the name?
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I own a farm, I inherit another smaller one, I am the administrator of the church next to me (built by Charlemagne), my great uncle was and my uncle is a catholic priest, my sister is heavily organised with catholic aid groups, I have been an altar server my whole childhood. My political views were reactionary, simply said, until I was ready to at least explore a bit of other views and traditions after reading and listening to Ray Peat. Marxism is not the problem; beaten people are
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@lutte medieval ass life but nice that you're not wholly reactionary. There's this guy who's Spanish nobility who gave up his inheritance to serve the DPRK, lived there for many years and is quite famous.Arrested by the FBI a few times I believe. Alejandro Cao de Benos
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@CO3 Alejandro Cao de Benos looks like the usual commie. Nothing noble there.
This is peak commie physiognomy:
Put yourself on fire for peak energy metabolism.
Ignore, judge, overcommit.
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@Norwegian-Mugabe His stroke was likely brought on by the two bullets lodged in his shoulder. He was one of the greatest men to have ever lived, and his monumental achievements far outshine your hero's.
Hitler, the loser, killed himself and his beard because he was so incompetent. Is there any worse thing? While Lenin was directing the greatest revolution the world has ever known and taking bullets for it this weakling was making his money '''''selling art''''' in university. We all know what that means lol.
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@lutte said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
Economists have not invented capitalism.
They misunderstood how a system of natural exchange of good works, and their mistakes have influenced people's perception of the "free market" and economic policies for centuries... And all of this influence is in bidirectional relationships with behaviors (feedback loops). I.e. it's all an accumulated mess now...
BTW You may want to learn about Actor-Network Theory...
Not only do we need to reassess science, and history every time because of recent revelations or understandings,
Agreed.
but also because life, everything is constant flux. Even physical laws.
No, not everything, some things are more fluid, and others are pretty stable. It's good to know the difference...
E.g. energy is more fluid than structures...BTW many works of Adam Smith have been falsified... it makes no sense to rely on them anymore...
Just an example https://evonomics.com/advice-to-an-aspiring-economist-the-invisible-hand-is-a-wishful-invention/A comprehensive discussion about all of those points above is beyond the scope of this forum. If you would like to know more, I'm happy to recommend for example this lecture https://youtu.be/ReYhKKQ--1c or this https://youtu.be/EC11UQD9q3w
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@CO3 Marx is one side of the Hegelian Dialectic. come up higher bros
The Problem: The actual toxicity of capitalism, is that it elevates laborers to inheritors. Capitalism was considered liberal and secular just 150 years ago. The very mindset of a healthy life, is to own something via peace and birthright - outside of the context of strife. Strife is fighting for something that's not yours. Healthy people are given inheritances and gifts, and work from a sense of sacrifice for those things' sustenance, where there will indeed be seasons of strife - noblesse oblige (for family, subordinate, enterprise, influence, governance, etc). But, people who acquire a thing via strife (serotonin and estrogen), create orphans and contemptible classes of "have/have-nots."
There will always be "haves and have-nots" with us; Matthew 26:11 "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."
Proverbs 30:21-23:
“Under three things the earth trembles, under four it cannot bear up: a servant [or pauper] who becomes king, a godless fool who gets plenty to eat, a contemptible woman who gets married, and a servant who displaces her mistress."
Half of the examples speak to upending hierarchy.Contemptible wealthy people are often limited to those who obtained their wealth via financecraft, rather than a leader/royal-birthright position. They leverage people's desperation via "wages," and scalp the imbalance of supply and demand. Their principle goal and metric of good, is resource acquisition, rather than leading a people unto their betterment, via safety, sustainability, balance, and order (as an extension of his betterment, like a Father would do).
Societies made of humans, need the governance of humans: Spiritual Fatherhood and Motherhood, in every strata and institution. No infighting of children for the bread, but order for all.
The dialectic is hierarchy vs sustainability for the disadvantaged. The truth is that actual hierarchy is required for ensuring every poor person has a house and well watered garden. Marx correctly identified the downfall of the sustainable human hierarchy, since the tearing down of monarchs of Europe, and ultimately, the enlightenment. However, he wanted to help it take it's course, unto eventual utopia. I don't believe that order spontaneously emerges from entropy, but rather a less effectual watered down resettlement of previous order. The universe is expanding and weakening, not expanding and creating emergent equally strong universes. We will never have an emergent society of utopia for the masses, but rather, new, more despotic hierarchies will emerge out of deconstructed power dynamics.
"Liberation" of man served only to liberalize his suffering.
The Answer: Restore Order.
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@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.
I think the grass roots conservatives, many of whom actually work (instead of talk) for a living, are better able to employ discernment because they have to in their everyday lives. I think you are mistaken; the conservative movement is not just a "cult of Trump". The conservative movement is comprised of a massive number of people in the U.S. who have gotten a craw full. Since 9-11, the political pendulum has veered too far to the left (in a strangely fascist sort of way); now it will massively correct to the right (or the nation will cease to exist). I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back: "Donald Trump was/is not just our candidate, he’s our murder weapon; the GOPe is our victim."
An update from today:
Big Ugly Shift – Koch Network Drops Haley Support, Retreats to Senate Decepticon Alamo
"In the announcement that Charles Koch and AFP are withdrawing financial support for Nikki Haley, they are admitting the institutional republican apparatus is now dropping back to control their Senate and Congressional power systems. In essence if they cannot control the presidency, they will control all of the systems that stem from the office of the presidency and thereby block Trump from delivering on the America-First agenda.This is what President Trump first encountered in 2017 when the professional republican system recoiled at the change that Trump represented. The largest amount of aversion to the America First agenda comes from the Republican wing inside the Senate; this is the core of the Decepticon construct.
With Donald J Trump shifting to become the “presumptive nominee,” an outcome of his support by the base voter, Charles Koch, AFP and to a larger extent all of the various professional republican elements (corporate republicanism) are now creating their last line of defense. All of the institutions again aligned to try and stop President Trump from fracturing the political control system within the USA political apparatus.
Trump is the weapon to destroy the long-created Republican ‘illusion of choice’. This is why people see masks dropping as the opposition to Trump becomes so transparent. Politicians and people within the political system, long thought to be Republicans who represented the alternative to leftism, are increasingly exposed as mere illusions of pushback. These revelations will continue as MAGA pushes deeper into the republican political network."
