ROS (elevated by fat oxidation) drive immune dysfunction in cancer; vitamin E may help
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Yet another study demonstrating that metabolism controls an aspect of physiology so far considered largely independent of environmental influences. Namely, the study demonstrated that reactive oxygen species (ROS) damages the telomeres of the so-called T-cells and that leads to impaired recognition by the organism of “cancer” cells. Increased acidity (e.g. lactate, already implicated as oncotarget) also contribute to ROS and T-cell damage. That impaired T-cell activity is what apparently is responsible to a large degree for the growth of both the primary tumor and the formation of metastases in later stages of the cancer. It just so happens that under normal conditions (i.e. without the presence of metabolic toxins) more than 95% of ROS are produced in the mitochondria under the so-called “reverse electron flow” (REF). Such REF occurs almost exclusively due to the excessive oxidation of fat, but not glucose. Thus, oxidizing primarily fat for fuel directly results in compromised immune function, which has implications not only for cancer, but for a host other diseases, including respiratory conditions such as the flu, COVID-19, bacterial infections. I mentioned the word “toxin” above and it was not by accident. In addition to excessive fat oxidation, the other known major source of ROS is as a result of cancer “treatment”. All three major types of it – surgery, ionizing radiation, chemotherapy – are actually employed primarily for this reason. Namely, they all (and especially radiation and chemo) generate massive amounts of ROS with the goal of killing the “cancer”. As we well know by now, this approach is very rarely curative and this study shows that it may actually spectacularly backfire since it leaves the patient in a compromised immune state, which allows the cancer to return and with the immune system suppressed the returning cancer is also much more aggressive than the original one. In other words, it is not that the returning cancer is somehow “angry” and deliberately acting aggressively to hurt the patient, but rather the strong suppression of the immune system due to the ROS generated by the cancer “treatments” allows the tumor to grow unopposed, which to doctors looks like a much more aggressive type of tumor. The study also demonstrated that administering anti-oxidants largely prevented (and reversed) the immunosuppressive effects of ROS, which suggests that something as simple as vitamin E or one of the quinone-like molecules would be able to greatly reduce the growth rate of already existing tumors, as well as the aggressiveness of returning tumor after cancer “treatments”. Other remedies such as niacinamide and aspirin, both of which limit the excessive fat oxidation, should also be beneficial and would probably synergize with the (structural) antioxidants.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.immuni.2025.08.008
https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-find-a-way-to-bulletproof-t-cells-against-cancer/
“…Tumor environments place heavy stress on immune cells that fight cancer. Limited oxygen, elevated acidity, and other harsh conditions overload mitochondria, the cell’s energy producers, which contributes to T cell fatigue and worsens cancer outcomes. A new study in Immunity, led by researchers at the University of Pittsburgh, showed in mice that these conditions prompt mitochondria to release reactive oxygen species (ROS). These molecules travel to the nucleus and damage telomeres, ultimately pushing T cells into a dysfunctional state. “The really exciting part about this research is that by preventing damage to telomeres via a targeted antioxidant, we can rescue T cell function,” said lead author Dayana Rivadeneira, assistant professor in the Pitt Department of Immunology and UPMC Hillman Cancer Center. “This opens the door to novel therapies to improve the effectiveness of cancer immunotherapies.”
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Does anyone think molecular hydrogen would be the better route for lowering “toxic” ROS in this case over Georgi’s recommendation of vit e or quinones?
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@dapose said in ROS (elevated by fat oxidation) drive immune dysfunction in cancer; vitamin E may help:
Does anyone think molecular hydrogen would be the better route
No, I don't think so.
H₂O₂ exhibits selectivity, modifying certain proteins and thereby influencing enzyme activities and transcription factors.
Hydrogen peroxide (H₂O₂) selectively modifies proteins by oxidizing redox-sensitive cysteine residues, which alters their activity and influences cellular processes like enzyme function and gene transcription. This modification acts as a redox signaling mechanism, enabling cells to respond to environmental cues and regulate important biological functions such as cell division, differentiation, migration, and survival. The selectivity arises from the specific oxidation of these cysteine residues, with the reversibility of this process, often mediated by glutathione, allowing for dynamic regulation of cellular responses.
Reversible Modification:
The oxidation of these cysteine residues is often a reversible process, allowing for a dynamic on/off switch in protein function. For example, the reducing agent glutathione (GSH) can reverse the oxidation of cysteine residues, restoring the protein to its reduced state.
Note’s editor: Do not stimulate GSH (in order to form glutathione) since cancer cells use GSH to protect themselves from the immune system (thanks the use of ROS by the body).Target what’s going to protect telomere and mitochondria: In terms of remedies, aspirin, niacinamide, vitamin D, thyroid, progesterone, quinones, etc. would probably be the most directly accessible and helpful remedies for restoring/improving mitochondrial function. (RP)
NB: As a preventive action.However, we have still to make the distinction between 2 phases:
Prevention and recovering phases;
Ionized or chemical “therapy”.Most known antioxidants are counterproductive in case of established cancer since they weaken our immune system.
NB1: Mind Haidut’s conclusion! Supplying antioxidants can help in prevention, but we have to be more specific during the “reverse” process.
H says: “Yes, “something as simple as vitamin E or one of the quinone-like molecules would be able to greatly reduce the growth rate of already existing tumors, as well as the aggressiveness of returning tumor after cancer treatments.”
=> Does CoQ10 and MK-4 counteract cancer ionized treatment?
DOI https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-017-08659-7
CoQ10 is not recommended during ionizing radiation treatment because it can interfere with the therapy's effectiveness by acting as an antioxidant that protects cancer cells from damage. While some studies suggest potential benefits in protecting healthy tissues from radiation damage and reducing fatigue, its use is controversial and can compromise the therapeutic outcome.
You should not use MK-4 either nor other antioxidant supplements during or immediately after radiation treatment, as it can reduce the effectiveness of the therapy. While vitamin K has shown potential benefits as an adjuvant therapy for cancer due to its anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties, it's crucial to avoid antioxidant supplements during active radiation treatment.NB2: I haven’t read sth that says Vit E could do the job, in the way it moderates the proliferation (tocotrienols gamma are very effective against inflammation and could protect one side of the membrane).
Vitamin E: This vitamin also acts as an antioxidant and plays a role in regulating hydrogen peroxide generation within the mitochondria.
Vitamin K2: Vitamin K2 protects against mitochondrial oxidative stress and cell damage by regulating mitochondrial quality control processes, such as the balance between mitochondrial fusion and fission, and promoting mitophagy (the removal of damaged mitochondria).
How long to wait before taking quinones to protect the mitochondria after an ionizing treatment (cancer)?
=> No consensus on posology & timing.Restoration of mitochondria after an ionizing treatment (cancer)
Restoring mitochondria after ionizing radiation treatment in cancer focuses on clearing damaged mitochondria through mitophagy, potentially by using mitochondria-targeting antioxidants like Methylene Blue and MitoQ to manage ROS levels. In cancer cells, strategies like using dichloroacetate (DCA) to restore oxidative phosphorylation and targeting metabolic reprogramming (away from glycolysis) can also play a role in restoring mitochondrial function.
Modulating Metabolism:
• Dichloroacetate (DCA): This compound has been shown to restore mitochondrial function by promoting oxidative phosphorylation and reducing the Warburg effect (a reliance on glycolysis by cancer cells), thereby restoring a more normal metabolic state.
• Lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) inhibitors: Targeting LDHA, the enzyme responsible for converting pyruvate to lactate, can reduce the reliance on glycolysis, which is often increased in cancer cells after irradiation.Important Considerations
Investigational Use: The use of Methylene Blue in cancer treatment is largely investigational and lacks broad clinical guidelines for safety and efficacy.
Dose-Dependent Effects: The effects of Methylene Blue are highly dose-dependent; high doses can have negative effects, while low doses may be beneficial. There is misinformation surrounding Methylene Blue. Mind the source (confirm).
In cancer therapy, the most important thing after an aggressive therapy is to relieve the liver's workload, prevent toxins from circulating, and anticipate cachexia. -
@dapose said in ROS (elevated by fat oxidation) drive immune dysfunction in cancer; vitamin E may help:
Does anyone think molecular hydrogen would be the better route for lowering “toxic” ROS in this case over Georgi’s recommendation of vit e or quinones?
No and maybe.
With regard to the fizzie tablets that are placed in water, it is "no" for now. The tablets have been commerically available for at least 5 years and I have not heard of any serious studies showing that they have a meaningful effect. The tablets provide too little hydrogen for too short a period of time. However, the fizziness may cause some people to think it is working (a placebo effect). Please correct me if I am uninformed about the science supporting the usefulness of fizzie tablets.
With regard hydrogen inhalation therapy (HIT), I think it may be helpful. I will look into the recent science. The issue I have with HIT is that I do not know of any reliable machines that are affordable (for me). As I recall,the research is done in hosiptals on very expensive machines.
If you have deep pockets (have the money) and you have dire need then go for it.
You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 👀
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@LucH awesome thanks for the great reply!
I was thinking of H2 molecular hydrogen rather than hydrogen peroxide H2O2. But I like all you points.
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@DavidPS thanks David!
Take a peek at some of these studies! If you want!
Peace -
@dapose -
