Vitamin E, A, B3 and T4 are androgenic and potentiates the effects of testosterone. Estrogen, aldosterne & cortisol may do the opposite.
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These are the types of studies peat was reading probably which is crazy.
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If the rats received 100000IU HED A then they must have suffered from vit A poisoning. Right?
Also, the RPF link is broken.
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@engineer https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/niacinamide-is-androgenic-and-increases-dht-effects-signaling.9892/
It was a 10 day study. I don't think 100k vitamin A is that crazy too. T + A was 4x more androgenic. I think lower doses would be androgenic too of course because of this.
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@alfredoolivas said in Vitamin E, A, B3 and T4 are androgenic and potentiates the effects of testosterone. Estrogen, aldosterne & cortisol may do the opposite.:
I don't think 100k vitamin A is that crazy too.
This furthers the idea that the "boring" old vitamins are extremely powerful in high enough doses. However, a lot of people think the vitamins are boring probably because they're only used to taking them in in RDA amount, which by definition is the bare minimum to not die of a deficiency, and it's usually far away from these studies with much higher doses.
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@engineer Yes would love to try out mega doses of the fat soluble vitamins but their long half life scares me from doing it lol. It would take like a year to clear out the dosages because they are so fat soluble lol.
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It could be worth it. 1 year of worse health or I find a cornucopia of health.
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@alfredoolivas if it makes you feel better I have taken 25k/d IU of beta carotene for a year+ and am feeling zero bad effects from it
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@engineer W. But why? Living in florida makes you tanned, I think the addition of beta carotene would make you look like Trump XD
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@alfredoolivas I actually started taking beta carotene before I knew anything about supplements much less Ray Peat, it was my mom who got it because it was cheap and looked effective.
My skin doesnt look orange at all but does change in tone drastically depending on the lighting:
So, it's possible to take in that much and be fine, but that's only me.
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@engineer Nice. Vitamin A seems really important in the androgenic system. Along with 14mg of Iron, it was as effective than 5mg of oxandrolone or 25mg of T at increasing the height of children, at only 4000IU a week!
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@alfredoolivas Unfortunately I have to dissent again because my height is below "average", possibly due to high estrogen. Thankfully that's no longer an issue thanks to Peating but I always wonder what would be different if I had known about RP back then.
Was high estrogen not an issue for the children receiving T in that study?
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@engineer it was 100mg a month which would create a huge spike and an uneven distribution of testosteorne throughout the month, because testosterone cypionate was used. So 72mg of elemental testosterone would give a very rough amount of maybe 2.4mg ot T delivered a day, with a lot more being delivered at the first few weeks.
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@alfredoolivas So a product combining T + A + E + t4 + t3 would give a good kick in the pants, would it?
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@jamezb46 yes and adding 10mcg of melanotan II would be super effective
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/9088/microgram-doses-of-melanotan-ii-may-increase-the-androgenic-effects-of-testosterone -
@alfredoolivas Or Pansterone + Kuinone + Androsterone on you-know-where in addition to A + E + T3 + T4 + melanotan II?
Just imagine the possibilities
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@engineer I assume you mean the scrotum. That's not a great idea, because it would increase androgen sensitivty of the testicles.
You don't want your testicles to be androgen sensitive because that would increase the negative feedback loop T & DHT, has on T production, lowering T production.
I saw that you apply androsterone there? I think this is counterproductive. It would increase local DHT in your testicles, reducign the amount of T produced by them.
You want your testicles to have sensitive LH receptors, not androgen receptors.@jamezb46 correct?
If you mean on your penis? great idea. Especially considering the vitamins are fat soluble and may gather there, extending their half lives on the penis.
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@alfredoolivas said in Vitamin E, A, B3 and T4 are androgenic and potentiates the effects of testosterone. Estrogen, aldosterne & cortisol may do the opposite.:
I saw that you apply androsterone there? I think this is counterproductive. It would increase local DHT in your testicles, reducign the amount of T produced by them.
You want your testicles to have sensitive LH receptors, not androgen receptors.Are you saying that the goal should be to bring DHT in the scrotum to the minimum needed? If so, does that mean you have to constantly monitor and adjust androsterone/AIs elsewhere to fine tune the DHT/estrogen balance? This is getting complicated now because estrogen is a more powerful negative HPG trigger than DHT.
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@engineer I wouldn't call it a goal, because high endogenous production of T would cause scrotal T+DHT to be high. But there is no benefit of adding androgenic or estrogenic substances to the testicles. The precursor steroids at least pregnenolone has shown to be protective. Not sure what you mean about the DHT/estrogen balance.
