moggy chicken log

LetTheRedeemed

@alfredoolivas said:
Yeah but there is ZERO proof that bread raises these things. You are piecing isolated claims together, and claiming a few pieces of bread...
It is pure theory.

These guys eat plenty of bread.

Bread was just an example of things that can cause issues. I also eat a clean bread (well before I started a fruit diet).

@LetTheRedeemed said:

but contributes to metabolic conditions that contribute to capillary leakiness and cell wall weakness

Sodium activates aldose reductase too. I think high carb diets / being insulin resistant leads there to be aldose reductase to be elevated too. When you add salt it can worsen things. Back in the time, people were a lot more insulin sensitive and thus could deal with this. But now, not so much. Shown by world wide research.

Sounds reasonable

I really can't understand how you throw away the shared expierence of millions (realisitcally if you tallied millions of people), and a centuries worth of research, by unconnected authors, globally, for a Ray Peat quote lol.

It's pretty clear, looking at studies and a globally shared experience, that it causes odema in excess (which is what you suggest the intake should be) whilst being anti stress.

I don't think I throw it away, I just look for context. One of my fave quotes by Peat was something like "everything in context" which is more of a law of wisdom than a pithy quote.

Contextually, edema was found in far higher levels amongst urban centers and sailors in the 1600-1800s. Here's the first context clue -- leading me to ask, why?

Google AI:
"Yes, historically, edema (historically referred to as "dropsy") was significantly worse and far more prevalent in sailors than in the general civilian population.During the Age of Sail (roughly the 16th through the 19th centuries), sailors suffered from severe, widespread edema at catastrophic rates."

"The 17th and 18th Centuries (Peak Diagnosis Era)The diagnosis of dropsy [edema] peaked significantly in urban Europe during the 1600s and 1700s. As populations flooded into crowded, poorly sanitized European cities, cases of organ failure and severe malnutrition spiked. In cities like London, dropsy routinely topped the official "Bills of Mortality" (public death records), accounting for hundreds of urban deaths every year. It affected everyone from the impoverished to royalty—for instance, historical records show British monarchs like Queen Elizabeth I suffered from bouts of it."

"Nitrates (in the form of saltpeter, or potassium nitrate) became universally included alongside salt for meat curing in Europe between 1600 and 1750, most likely around 1700."

alfredoolivas

@LetTheRedeemed now ask Gemini the average salt intake during that time!

LetTheRedeemed

@alfredoolivas are you referencing higher sodium consumption in the late medieval/early modern period of 1600-1700s? unusually high numbers like daily 40 grams, and daily 100 grams in Sweden, are because of people using consumption data of salt, but that's innacurate, because it takes a whole nation's sodium import, when the vast majority was used for preservation, and not consumed. It's probably impossible to consume much more than 12 grams of salt a day for an extended period, and I even question the 18 grams numbers thrown around about 1800s Western nations, because China has the same economic number of total consumption per person, but then at the individual eating level it's something like 10 grams on avg.

What makes china cool, is they didn't really undergo an industrial-liberal health and food revolution like America did, so they're probably eating more consistently according to what the avg agrarian society ate for thousands of years (meat in every form, offal, grain, salt to taste, sugar to taste, seasonal fruits, boiled veg, etc).