The anti-cortisol mechanism of trenbolone

alfredoolivas

The reason 17a methylated steroids are dosed multiple times lower than non 17a methylated steroids is because their half life is so great, allowing for far more stable blood and tissue concentrations that are greater

Think about it. You give a guy A 10mg of oxandrolobd and guy B 12mg testosterone acetate.

Hour 1:
Guy A: 10mg of Oxandrolone in his system
Guy B: 0.3-0.6mg of testosterone has been released this hour

Hour 6:
Guy A: 6mg of Oxandrolone in his system
Guy B: 0.28 to 0.35mg of testosterone has been released in hour 6.

methylation allows for supraphysiological & stable levels of androgens from low doses.

10mg of 2 oxo DHT will not replicate 10mg of anavar for those reasons

jamezb46

@alfredoolivas If you check some of the research I posted from last year, the evidence supports 2-oxa steroids (sans 17-A methylation) being quite anabolic, though definitely less than 17-A steroids. I think what the big deal with 2-oxa-tren was that when given orally it significantly outperformed about methyl-test.

https://academic.oup.com/endo/article-abstract/84/2/441/2695192?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false

"The 2-oxa analog (III) was 2–9 times as androgenic as MT and 93 times as myotrophic. Activity of this magnitude was surprising in view of the absence of a methyl substituent on C-17 of this compound."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone

BTW: the clear actually has a 17-A ethyl group, not methyl. That probably has something to do with its potency, as ethyl groups are even more lipophilic than methyl groups. Possibly, it makes metabolic deactivation of it even more difficult than with 17-alpha methyl groups.

alfredoolivas

@jamezb46 great find

Why do people prefer methyl groups over ethyl groups? Surely there isn't free lunch. Ethyl nandrolone (norethisterone) has less affinity for the AR relative to nandrolone

jamezb46

@alfredoolivas The methyl groups are probably better for AR binding, as you suggest. Actually, something similar is the case with methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is a better stimulant than ethylamphetamine.

THG has an ethyl group not for some special reason to do with the ethyl being "better" but because of two reasons 1) the precursors PA was working with (norgestrel) 2) even if PA could have made THG with methyl instead of ethyl at 17-A he wouldn't have because he wanted to make something undetectable and I believe the 17-A ethyl group made it undetectable because it was metabolized into compounds that no algorithm at the time analyzing the breakdown products in urine could detect

alfredoolivas

@jamezb46 what were the doses of the clear? Idk why methylated steroids were chosen, because you can just take more of the ethyl steroid and have the same endocrine effects without hepatoxicity

jamezb46

@alfredoolivas tiny doses, similar to mtren.

Ethylated steroid are also hepatotoxic, probably more so than methylated actually

alfredoolivas

@jamezb46 Oh I was under the impression they were less.
RU486 has an ethyl group and is used in >gram doses. It is liver toxic, but far less so than other methylated steroids used in thousandths of the doses of ru486.

jamezb46

@alfredoolivas Well, I think it depends on a number of factors. For example, Danazol is taken in the hundreds of mg range, and it has the ethnyl group. Note this is not the same moiety as an ethyl group, it is ethnyl, not ethyl. I actually don't know of any steroid (progestogin,androgen, etc.) that has an ethyl instead of a methyl at 17-A. The progestins have Ethnyl, not Ethyl.

Only exception I can find is THG, which has ethyl instead of ethnyl, PA must have figured out that changing from ethnyl to ethyl makes the compound better in some important way, either increasing AR binding or reducing breakdown. THG was synthesized from Gestrinone, and Gestrinone has ethnyl on 17-A.

BTW: PA refers to the ethnyl group as "an acetylene group" in some interviews, which is informal.

It might actually be worth trying to get your hands on some Danazol or Gestrinone because they're androgenic

alfredoolivas

@jamezb46 Bro I would sell my kideny for a gram of gestrinone

alfredoolivas

@jamezb46 Any thoughts on stanazol and halotestin?

jamezb46

@alfredoolivas

Don't know much about them but apparently real halotestin is fairly safe and JFK was on it.

Obviously there's a reason why BBers use winstrol but I don't think its anything special for non-competitors.

ethan

20~mgs of tren base every day for two months made my clavicles noticeably wider, could literally feel the increased calcium demands by taste.