I need help trying to figure out what’s wrong with me
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An acute tryptophan diet would be an interesting experiment for a day or two (if you have not already tried this). Collagen or gelatin powder as your only protein source. Fruits, maybe potatoes, coconut oil to fill out calories. You can dramatically lower serotonin this way, especially in the brain. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.94.10.5308. Maybe even a few hours would be enough for a quick check.
If you have already tried this I would be curious what resulted, how you felt, etc.
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*"Acute tryptophan depletion diet...."
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@Homo_normalis Great results from this. 80g gelatin a day with an otherwise low protein diet and bromocriptine w/ caffeine is the most dopaminergic I ever felt.
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An acute tryptophan diet would be an interesting experiment for a day or two (if you have not already tried this). Collagen or gelatin powder as your only protein source. Fruits, maybe potatoes, coconut oil to fill out calories. You can dramatically lower serotonin this way, especially in the brain. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.94.10.5308. Maybe even a few hours would be enough for a quick check.
If you have already tried this I would be curious what resulted, how you felt, etc.
I haven’t tried this but I will add it to my list.
I often wonder since I don’t produce any stomach acid really that I’m actually protein defieicnt. My urine is always frothy but it never comes back as an issue in the urine tests that check for protein
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@KM88 you said you eat meat and carbs, can you explicit, what carbs?
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@KM88 said:
My urine is always frothy but it never comes back as an issue in the urine tests that check for proteinFrom my understanding, if urine has bubbles that pop it’s gas, and if the bubbles don’t pop, i.e., urine is foamy, it’s protein. It sounds like in your case, the frothiness is gas bubbles?
Blood tests aren’t the most accurate diagnostic for thyroid function so I’m not surprised your t3 looks normal. Mine always comes back within range, even when my thyroid was suppressed. May I ask what your thyroid source was, what your thyroid stats (temp & pulse rate upon waking in the morning, and even better if you tracked them right before and roughly 30 minutes after eating) and dosing schedule were, how long you supplemented for and what your diet (food & caloric intake) was at the time?
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@KM88 said:
My urine is always frothy but it never comes back as an issue in the urine tests that check for proteinFrom my understanding, if urine has bubbles that pop it’s gas, and if the bubbles don’t pop, i.e., urine is foamy, it’s protein. It sounds like in your case, the frothiness is gas bubbles?
Blood tests aren’t the most accurate diagnostic for thyroid function so I’m not surprised your t3 looks normal. Mine always comes back within range, even when my thyroid was suppressed. May I ask what your thyroid source was, what your thyroid stats (temp & pulse rate upon waking in the morning, and even better if you tracked them right before and roughly 30 minutes after eating) and dosing schedule were, how long you supplemented for and what your diet (food & caloric intake) was at the time?
The bubbles stay piled up for long lengths of time. It was definitely abnormal. It’s not always like that but more often than not it is. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life.
I was using the ideal labs t3. The pulse is hard to get a read in since I Have POTS and it’s always erratic. The temp rarely ever reaches 98.6. Usually it’s low 97 ish.
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The carbs are mostly beans and glucose drinks
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Hi, yes I do have dysautonomia. I’ve tried mega dosing allithiamine , thiamine hcl and beforthiamine at various different times over the years. Unfortunately it hadn’t helped really at all. I don’t know maybe i can’t absorb it properly with low hcl?
So, I try to summarize:
You suffer from dysautonomia. You’ve taken some HD thiamine but it hasn’t improved the situation.
Let me clarify for other readers:
Dysautonomia in short
Dysautonomia is a disorder of the autonomic nervous system (ANS), where the nerves that control involuntary bodily functions—like breathing, heart rate, blood pressure, digestive issues such as nausea, and temperature—don't function properly. This malfunction leads to a wide range of disruptive symptoms and problems with fatigue and exercise intolerance or difficulty in controlling body temperature.
To be remembered, as already mentioned before: Some people aren’t suffering from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block. Dependent-B1 enzymes are blocked / inactivated due to some “stress factors” (see figure):
Warning: When taking high dose thiamine, there is a protocol to follow. There is interaction with other vitamins. For example taking 100 mg, then afterwards 500 mg of thiamine (the TTFD kind is advised for the brain penetration) will deplete the other cofactors involved in the assimilation of thiamine. See the advised protocol further by Elliot Overton (hallmark N° 14).
Why a high dose vitamin B1 and not only the RDA? We need HD B1 to get a beneficial passive assimilation by the body. Transport carriers are limited.
=> Understanding the difference between nutritional & functional deficiencies. How to reset with HD thiamine.
A patient may have a functional thiamine deficiency because his mitochondria are damaged, or because detox pathways are overloaded (enzymes blocked), leading to impaired cellular processes, even if they are consuming sufficient thiamine (RDA).
Moreover when the usual active process is inefficacious, the success of the therapy could depend on the form of thiamine when trying to optimize the passive diffusion. Giving only an ordinary form of thiamin is not sufficient to relieve a neuro-pathology. The TTFD form would generally be the best form to use, to re-initiate the communication between the brain and the digestive system through the vagus nerve. But some adaptation in Q and rhythm could be needed to avoid side effects. For instance when someone has a poor bile production (weak fat absorption), low level of digestive enzymes, chronic constipation or diarrhea, acid reflux and nausea, slow motility (bloating & SIBO), leaky gut (permeability and inflammation), etc. not limited to these symptoms.
Some people respond better to one form than another one, some people respond best to 2 different forms, beginning e.g. with Thiamine HCL and benfotiamine afterwards for peripheral neuro-problems, or B1 HCL and TTFD for the interconnection with the central nervous system and the gut.
Details are given on the video, how to proceed then to avoid a paradoxical reaction (temporary worsening of symptoms).See how to optimize and bypass the block on Eonutrition. I’ve analyzed rather deeply and commented a very pertinent video (in 2 parts):
"How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice": Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON (nutritionist) (multiplex) – Part 2 – Video 2:04:02
*) Some hallmarks of the video – part 2 (EONutrition)
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance – Elliot Overton (nutritionist): Orthomolecular Medicine – Dr. Derrick Lonsdale’s legacy.
Youtube Video- 01.45”: Recap of part 1.
- 07.59: Basic Definitions & Dysautonomia symptoms
- System affected by B1 deficiency: Nerve regulation & brain functions, gut & digestion, heart & circulation. In short, everything correlated with energy and enzymes.
- Understanding the difference between nutritional & functional deficiencies. How to reset with HD thiamine.
- Induced deficiency due to impaired absorption
- 11.08”: Functional dependency & Metabolic block.
- All or nothing effect (posology required)
- 22.40”: Aim to increase enzyme activity involved in energy production, not only to correct a systemic deficit.
- 37.12”: Forms of thiamine: TTFD for the neuro-problems but with progressiveness. Not everybody will be allowed to tolerate TTFD because it wakes up several processes. Benfotiamine is very popular in the west studies.
- 57.05” Elliot Overton treated patients with SIBO /IBS issues with success.
Effect of B1 TTFD on MMC (motility). - 1.03.45”. The paradoxical reaction (temporary worsening of symptoms). Vitamins and minerals advised to dampen over-reaction.
- 1.11.00’. 3 pillars of thiamine repletion: Identify the kind of B1 your body needs. Support with cofactors. Take interaction into account.
- Key points about the dose & when to reduce after recovering health
- Examples with TTFD, benfotiamine, HCl.
- 1.27.26”. Generic protocol example (starting very slowly, for sensitive people)
- 1.28.15”: Recommended nutrients to minimize side-effects of health crisis
- 1.28.45”: Protocol examples: Starting – Mega-dose – Mix-match approach.
- 1.36.45’’. Know when moving forward – Things to watch out
- 1.40.40”. Creating health-condition specific protocols (in case of health issues)
- Recap: Different doses for different specific conditions.
- Remind: Common symptoms of the paradoxical reaction (detox crisis = Herxheimer reaction)
- Possible nutritional interactions when supplementing HDT.
*) See detailed explanation on this link
English corner: Disruption in coordination with fatigue and exercise intolerance, temp & intestinal problems
Metabolic block: Brain & intestinal system affected by thiamine deficiency
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2127-english-corner-disruption-in-coordination-with-fatigue-and-exercise-intolerance-temp-intestinal-problems#30304Useful links
- Taking T3 and T4 synthetic supplement improves metabolism for a while.
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2108-english-corner-taking-t3-and-t4-synthetic-supplement-improves-metabolism-for-a-while#30193
=> Roles of deiodinases. Required nutrients for thyroid health. - Time adaptation is required.
=> "Since the body normally produces about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, taking 10 or 20 mcg at once is unphysiological" – Ray Peat.
“With too much T3 the liver starts converting any T4 into reverse-t3” – Ray Peat. - Brain Regions affected by thiamine deficiency
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON (nutritionist) (multiplex) – Part 2 – Video 2:04:02
Elliot Overton says: “This is the second of two lectures I gave to a group of medical/health professionals on the clinical application of high-dose vitamin B1. In this video I outline the difference between nutritional deficiency and the concept of "functional dependence". I then discuss the practical aspects of forming a protocol including: - Which form to use and why - How to dose for different conditions - When to use this therapy and when not to use this therapy - Managing patient side effects.” - Le côté obscur de la supplémentation en vitamines B complexes
Intérêt d’une supplémentation appropriée et équilibrée. Présenté différemment, trop d’une bonne chose est contreproductif.
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2070-le-cote-obscur-de-la-supplementation-en-vitamines-b-complexes#29900
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@KM88 so you only eat chicken and eggs ? you are yet to answer what your diet is made out of
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