cancer
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@eugene fasting by stopping the consumption of food can be useful so long as you consume salty coconut water and fruit juice to preserve electrolytes and lower cortisol somewhat. And I wouldn’t do it more than 36 hours at a time.
It has one benefit, which is lowering endotoxins.
I think a diet primarily consisting of non-animal protein is very important. Keeping methionine below 1g per day is useful to stop cancer from spreading.
I think Dr. Peat never explored methionine to a great degree, at least I never heard him talk much about it, but methionine from animal protein is a factor that limits life and that promotes cancer. It is why a keto diet is a bad bad idea in cancer.
On the contrary - he talked about limiting methionine quite a lot in interviews.
https://bioenergetic.life/?q=methionine+
https://raypeat2.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml
"It happens that gelatin is a protein which contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. Using gelatin as a major dietary protein is an easy way to restrict the amino acids that are associated with many of the problems of aging."
Dr. Peat said;
"Any stage of healing wound can be identical to cancer. "https://bioenergetic.life/clips/d96b2?t=4352&c=92
I wonder what this means for the diagnosis of cancer? Is it a healing wound or is it cancer?
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@Peatly I mean this, that Dr. Peat talked about restricting methionine a bit, but he promoted dairy and ate that a lot himself, which is higher in methionine and he never advocated a plant based diet primarily.
I have found that many times, wounds can turn into cancer sites. I have found this through listening to many people’s account of getting cancer, and in some cases, an injury or wound preceded the cancer. I don’t know if that’s what Dr. Peat meant, but it is something I observe quite often.
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Probably a decrease in metabolism. Cold hands and feet, mental problems. I suffer from these, felt like I was on the verge of death today but I saw @haidut study on cancer treatment using b1 b3 b7 and aspirin so decided to take all of those today in doses of 1g, 500mg, 10mg and 600mg and it had profound effects on my mental clarity and energy to the point where I felt more normal again.
Going to up the dose tomorrow as I experienced no stomach upset with the aspirin which was my main worry. Seems to fair well when taken shortly after the B vitamins. Off topic but I wanted to share
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@Peatly I mean this, that Dr. Peat talked about restricting methionine a bit, but he promoted dairy and ate that a lot himself, which is higher in methionine and he never advocated a plant based diet primarily.
I have found that many times, wounds can turn into cancer sites. I have found this through listening to many people’s account of getting cancer, and in some cases, an injury or wound preceded the cancer. I don’t know if that’s what Dr. Peat meant, but it is something I observe quite often.
Yes, Dr. Peat did drink a lot of milk but he restricted his meat consumption for more gelatinous cuts. I think he would say that the calcium in milk was protective as inadequate calcium intake is a risk factor for some types of cancers.
The thing about wounds that turn into cancer, can we be sure that they were really cancer? In one interview he said benign tumours were being reclassified as cancer. So, what was just a harmless lump, 50 years ago, is now cancer.
“An article in JAMA about 40 years ago looked at the evidence of how the pathology methods of analyzing the properties of the cytoplasm nucleus ratio and the matter of disorganization and invasion and so on and in this article it was demonstrated that a healing wound if it's biopsied will show all of the properties that are used by the pathologist to identify cancer so that what is defined as cancer has become more inclusive and if you happen to have an injury that gets biopsied it'll be called cancer because it has the properties of of rapid growth uh invasive appearance and so on.” Ray Peat
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@Ecstatic_Hamster LOL this has to be a joke.
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“About 40 years ago, three different doctors diagnosed, told me that I should have a biopsy on three different things. And since I had already been studying what doctors do and know about cancer, I ignored them and increased my thyroid and used a little nutritional addition like extra vitamin A and folic acid. I put some progesterone and DHEA on the area. And so far, that's 40 years ago, and none of them have persisted.” Ray Peat
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P Peatly referenced this topic on
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Now AI can help
misdiagnose your cancer -
@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
I think Dr. Peat never explored methionine to a great degree, at least I never heard him talk much about it, but methionine from animal protein is a factor that limits life and that promotes cancer. It is why a keto diet is a bad bad idea in cancer.
even the little methionine in gelatin?
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Seems like all the roads point to vegetarianism in many ways.
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A blood test to look for fragments of DNA in the bloodstream
“She was offered a blood test, also described as a "liquid biopsy" which looks for fragments of DNA which have broken off tumours and are in the bloodstream.
This so-called "circulating tumour DNA" revealed that Kat's cancer growth was being driven by a mutation in the ALK gene.”
I won't state the obvious
This story was published hours before the announcement that the other Kate has cancer.
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I was told by a nurse that there are a lot of cancer deaths in men lately. When I asked what type she said prostate. I guess the screening trial is "working"
https://raypeat2.com/articles/articles/prostate-cancer.shtml
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@Ecstatic_Hamster Maybe it'd be useful if you summarised the parts of your research you think are most important, as people might not know the right questions to ask.
I did wonder if you had any thoughts about cancer prevention, as opposed to cure? Anything other than aspirin, avoiding pufa, avoiding excess iron/phlebotomies, excess methionine.
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@Jakeandpace literally the same as me. The past few days I have been taking thiamine, b complex and aspirin, along with k2, E and D and my energy levels and mental clarity / happiness are noticeably elevated. I don’t think Haidut is bullshitting about aspirin.
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@raytreats Good to hear my man. I am opting for lower doses since doing the big ones for a while. I don't think Niacinamide in such high doses is beneficial. I much prefer the smaller ones spread throughout the day. 2g in one dose made me feel very weird like I wasn't really having any thoughts, just purely in the moment. Kind of odd, I didn't like it.
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Methionine Dependence of Cancer
"[..]even though flux through polyamine synthesis needs to be high, especially in dividing cells, neither the methionine cycle nor polyamine synthesis consumes methionine. However, methionine is removed by protein synthesis and indirectly through the transsulfuration pathway leading to cysteine synthesis and feeding antioxidant production (
Figure 2A).""Most cancer cells cannot proliferate in medium where methionine is replaced by homocysteine, even though they readily synthesize methionine from homocysteine (
Figure 1).""Several cancer cell lines and tumors depend on exogenous serine. This is surprising because serine can usually be synthesized from glucose in sufficient amounts via the glycolysis intermediate 3-phosphoglycerate [40,41]. However, the increased demand of cancer cells on glycolysis for energy production may divert the flux of 3-phosphoglycerate from serine synthesis to glycolysis. Serine requirement for cancer cell proliferation may thus link the Warburg and Hoffman effects by connecting glycolytic flux with SAM synthesis."
"Preclinical models have shown promise with dietary methionine restriction significantly suppressing tumor growth in multiple models, which include both solid tumors and blood cancers [59,65,66,67,68,69]."
Serine synthesis | Eigenbrodt and Mazurek
Serine hydroxymethyltransferase | Proteopedia
I had thought of depleting methionine by overwhelming sulfotransferases, increasing its internal consumption to derive sulfate for conjugation of other molecules, but it seems that it's not viable and the body switches to glucuronidation when needed.
Human Sulfotransferases and Their Role in Chemical Metabolism
"Many of the substrates metabolized by sulfotransferases are also substrates for UDP-glururonosyltransferases, and in this context, the former system has generally been considered a high-affinity, low-capacity pathway, whereas the latter system is considered a low-affinity, high-capacity pathway (Burchell and Coughtrie, 1997). This suggests that SULTs may be more important than UDP-glucuronosyltransferases in the metabolism of chemicals via low-level exposure from the environment or through food consumption."
"[..]the expression of SULTs in humans has been shown to exhibit a pronounced extra hepatic pattern, whereas in rodents it appears to be predominantly hepatic (Eisenhofer et al., 1999, Hempel et al., 2005)."
It must be best for the methionine restriction to affect its concentration in circulation (or else cells keep acquiring it) and to moderate the one-carbon donors that promote its regeneration.
I remember a discussion on the following publication that Bulgaria brought up on the 'amino acid supplementation' thread of the Garrey Smeat Forum, and it shows that it's possible to be extreme about it:
"A recent study designed to quantify dietary methionine requirements in normal subjects sheds light on this issue (22). In that study, stable isotope methods were used to measure obligatory methionine oxidation in normal subjects on a diet completely devoid of sulfur amino acids (methionine and cysteine) for 5 days. Although somewhat controversial (23), obligatory oxidation rates are considered by many to represent the minimum requirement for amino acids, that is, the amount that is oxidized despite maximal body conservation. The obligatory oxidative loss of methionine was 13 mg/kg/ day in that study (22). Patients in our trial, who were restricted to 2 mg methionine/kg/day, therefore, consumed 11 mg/kg/day less than the minimum requirement. However, they consumed adequate amounts of cysteine, which is present in Hominex-2. They therefore may have had obligatory methionine oxidation rates <13 mg/kg/day. The fact that all patients reversibly lost weight, despite what would normally be considered adequate energy and protein intake, may actually be encouraging, since it confirms that patients adhered to the diet. The basic premise of this strategy is that dietary methionine restriction will have a greater deleterious effect on tumors than on normal host tissues."
The effect was achieved with dietary restriction, without involving methioninase.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@gugenmungus thanks. Makes a lot of sense. People who get high fevers sometimes get rid of cancer. Sauna would be very good.
i don't remember where but i distinctly recall reading a research summary about mice with cancerous tumors. They were cut open, low heat was applied directly to the tumors raising the localized temps by just a few degrees. They were then sutured back up and the tumors were later absorbed by their bodies, gone for good.
Just the fact that our body can raise it's own temp to "cure" certain ailments is pretty amazing imo.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
A plant based diet is very helpful because it lowers methionine and lowering methionine is a very easy and useful way to slow or stop tumor growth and support over all health.
How would a plant based diet look in context of general Peaty dietary advice? How would one get enough protein?
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@DonkeyDude said in cancer:
@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
A plant based diet is very helpful because it lowers methionine and lowering methionine is a very easy and useful way to slow or stop tumor growth and support over all health.
How would a plant based diet look in context of general Peaty dietary advice? How would one get enough protein?
In an interview Dr Peat was asked about limiting his protein to 50g he said it was difficult to do especially with drinking a gallon or so of orange juice. I was confused because I couldn’t imagine how orange juice would impact protein intake. So, I looked up protein content of orange juice – I was shocked to discover that a gallon of orange juice contained around 27grams of protein.
