How to esterize DHT at home? DIY
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@pannacottas What are you hoping to do with DHT? I think it's a very misunderstood hormone.
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@Crypt-Keeper It is indeed. Basically what op said, but to add more:
DHT is the ultimate male hormone; not testosterone. It is the most potent androgen receptor (AR) agonist, and is 2.5-10x more potent of an androgen than testosterone.
Unlike testosterone, DHT cannot be converted to estrogen, and is also an estrogen receptor (ER) antagonist. Interestingly, the anti-estrogenic effects of DHT are independent from its role as an androgen agonist.
DHT is thought to not have any significant effects on muscle growth. The reason for this is because DHT is metabolized primarily by 3a-hsd and 3b-hsd enzymes into "inactive" steroids (which are potent neurosteroids that have been shown to have various positive effects on mood and cognition).
So saying DHT isn't anabolic because it is metabolized quickly is not a valid argument, as you wouldn't inject base testosterone which would be metabolized even more quickly than DHT. In reality DHT it is more anabolic mg per mg than testosterone.
The reason we want an ester is why people use testosterone esters; to make the DHT stay in the blood as DHT for longer to exert its biological effects for an extended period of time.
Bodybuilders already use DHT derivatives like Masteron, Proviron, Anavar, Primo etc, which have some kind of structural modifications to make them resistant to metabolism by 3a-hsd and other enzymes. There are anecdotal reports on bodybuilding forums (though scarce) that claim DHT esters are better than any other DHT derivatives they have tried. Someone said 100mg DHT-E/week is stronger than 750mg Masteron/week. So, there is no reason not to use esterified DHT, a bioidentical hormone, instead of these DHT derivatives which can be quite toxic.
DHT has a number of beneficial effects on health and Haidut has made extensive posts for many of them, so im not going to post them here.
Lastly, DHT does NOT cause hair loss or prostate cancer, and can actually help treat the latter.Like this tweet puts it, Exogenous DHT allows Men to experience how Life would be were soy and estrogen not pumped into anything and everything.
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@pannacottas I do have some DHT powder here. I will say... I think you will be really disappointed to see what DHT can and cannot do. DHT is another paracrine hormone so taking it exogenously has its weaknesses too.
The general public's impression is that DHT is sort of like a high-octane version of T. Maybe people who are low DHT and normalize their DHT levels will feel that way. For others, though...
If you read Haidut's posts closely, you'll draw the conclusion that DHT is both anxiolytic and anti-estrogenic. Whether that is actually good or bad for a man is going to depend on where he is coming from.
Probably the closest I've come to using a DHT ester (of sorts) would be Epistane.
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@Crypt-Keeper I am actually in a gc where ppl are taking big doses of DHT-E and report nothing but good effects from it, from mental clarity and improved cognitive performance, to pr's in the gym and lowered blood pressure. Ive already tried base DHT but only topically and the effects are good but not that impressive. That's why i want to try esterified DHT or for now another route of administration for base DHT, which im working on.
I would disagree about the general public's impression on DHT. Most normies i've talked to and i've seen talking about it in the internet, simply view it as nothing more than a trash hormone that causes hair loss and prostate cancer lol.
Yes i've read Haidut's posts. I know it is anxiolytic because i've tried it and its metabolites are potent GABA agonists. However androsterone had more of that effect i'd say.
How was your experience with Epistane? Some say it's the ultimate oral, but it causes joint pain similar to Winstrol, plus it's highly hepatotoxic...
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@pannacottas I'm not aware of any vendors that sell esterified DHT. Normal DHT is quite unpopular among seasoned gear users anyway. Most just prefer pinning mast-P, which is better suited to their needs. If you're looking for esterified DHT then mast-P is probably going to be your best bet.
I've had good results with DHT but my preference is just to use topical testosterone. It's also what I would recommend for most other males as well, as it can reliably increase DHT without adversely effecting T/DHT ratio.
Men 50 and over would be the exception, as there's a good RCT conducted in France that shows non-aromatizable androgens are best for aging males when doing HRT.
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@Mulloch94 I believe DHT is not popular not because "if it was effective people would use it", but simply because there was never supply to begin with. In a few years DHT years will gain popularity, vendors will start carrying it and people will be using it in place of any synthetic DHT.
Im not going to use any synthetic steroid when i can use bioidentical hormones. Yes there's no legit suppliers (i actually know a source but i dont trust it) but maybe there's a chance DHT esters can be sourced from china or sythesized (purpose of this thread).
Also i wouldn't use Test without DHT. Yes the skin has higher 5-AR expression bla bla, all i know is topical pansterone was very estrogenic for me. So i won't mess with aromatizable steroids, for now at least.
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Russian Star Peptides/Titan Chem seems to have finished DHT heptanoate (enanthate) oil but it's most likely bunk, since these guys are known scammers. Someone on RPF claimed their DHT gel contained caffeine and finasteride lmao. And someone on reddit actually tested it with Jano and it had no DHT.
But im a bit tempted to buy it and test it just out curiosity. -
@pannacottas said in How to esterize DHT at home? DIY:
Also i wouldn't use Test without DHT. Yes the skin has higher 5-AR expression bla bla, all i know is topical pansterone was very estrogenic for me. So i won't mess with aromatizable steroids, for now at least.
What's your diet like? Vitamin D, E, calcium, protein, salt, zinc, progesterone are all important to keep the right supply of androgens to estrogen. Lower more frequent dosing of T can prevent a rise in estrogen without the use of any aromatase inhibitors.
I actually take 100mg twice daily, but I also use an OTC aromatase inhibitor. But you probably wouldn't need this if you use the transscrotal method of delivery. As demonstrated in this study, physiological doses as small as 15mgs daily was enough to raise both T and DHT without effecting estradiol.
"The need for improved controlled delivery of testosterone to hypogonadal men stimulated the development of a self-adherent transscrotal testosterone system to provide programmed testosterone delivery through the uniquely permeable scrotal skin. In this short- and long-term efficacy trial, the responses of testosterone and its metabolites to the application of transscrotal testosterone systems of varying testosterone content were compared with the response to 200 mg of testosterone enanthate. Daily transscrotal testosterone system administration resulted in a rapid increase of testosterone and bioavailable, nonsex hormone binding globulin-bound testosterone levels to normal, peaking at two hours, followed by a slow decline over 23 hours, resembling the diurnal variation of endogenous testosterone. One year of daily transscrotal testosterone system therapy demonstrated continued reliable absorption of testosterone and suppression to normal of the luteinizing hormone in two of three patients. There was a greatly disproportionate increase of serum dihydrotestosterone over testosterone, suggesting 5-alpha reduction at the scrotal site. The subjects reported marked subjective improvement. Thus, the transscrotal testosterone system is a novel, effective, and well-tolerated method of delivering testosterone to hypogonadal patients."
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I've seen very similar studies as well but using slightly higher dosages, like 25mg and 50mg. The 50mg might be getting kinda high if you're trying not to disturb your E2, but long-term usage at 25mg will likely not be an issue either.
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Just to clarify, if you're wondering why I don't use the scrotal method and instead opt for normal dermal areas like shoulders, traps, forearms, etc. it's because I don't like waiting for it to dry on my balls before pulling up my pants. This is the only downside in my opinion, but if you have time to let it do it's thing, then this is the method I highly recommend.
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@pannacottas said in How to esterize DHT at home? DIY:
Russian Star Peptides/Titan Chem seems to have finished DHT heptanoate (enanthate) oil but it's most likely bunk, since these guys are known scammers. Someone on RPF claimed their DHT gel contained caffeine and finasteride lmao. And someone on reddit actually tested it with Jano and it had no DHT.
But im a bit tempted to buy it and test it just out curiosity.Do you mean this product? Looks kind of sus. Even if it's real I would never trust ordering controlled substances with my card or paypal. If they have a crypto option then fine, but they just mention card and paypal in their payment section.
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If transdermal T aromatizes easily then maybe I should try taking it. I'm even doing straight transdermal estrogen and that isn't doing jack to help my low E symptoms. I guess I will have to revisit the transdermal T thread and learn the tricks.
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As demonstrated in this study, physiological doses as small as 15mgs daily was enough to raise both T and DHT without effecting estradiol.
That's interesting, thanks.
Yeah i agree scrotal method is quite annoying. Also Ray has recommended against applying substances there. Since the skin is so thin, whatever you put will be absorbed highly; though i think the problem has to do more with the carrier than the hormones.Do you mean this product? Looks kind of sus. Even if it's real I would never trust ordering controlled substances with my card or paypal. If they have a crypto option then fine, but they just mention card and paypal in their payment section.
Yes that one. I think he's in the UK where steroids are in a gray zone between legal and controlled, but yeah if they dont have crypto then im not buying anything
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@Crypt-Keeper
Going off topic here but Ray didnt think there was such thing as "low estrogen". From what i've seen these symptoms can be low pregnenolone symptoms, among other things. Low blood estrogen can mean high tissue estrogen and high prolactin, btw. -
@pannacottas said in How to esterize DHT at home? DIY:
Also Ray has recommended against applying substances there. Since the skin is so thin, whatever you put will be absorbed highly; though i think the problem has to do more with the carrier than the hormones.
Yeah it's the solvent/carrier that's typically the issue. Although I suppose if you get a batch of T with exceptionally high contaminants that would also be bad. But generally speaking it's a carrier issue. Fortunately normal T base dissolves well in most things.
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@Crypt-Keeper said in How to esterize DHT at home? DIY:
If transdermal T aromatizes easily then maybe I should try taking it. I'm even doing straight transdermal estrogen and that isn't doing jack to help my low E symptoms. I guess I will have to revisit the transdermal T thread and learn the tricks.
Boron, d-aspartic acid, and saw palmetto would be a good (?) stack to raise estrogen. Also copper, so eat plenty of liver. Get your estrogen tested first, don't just assume based on symptoms alone. Raising estrogen would be too risky without knowing for sure. Edema, clots, stroke, cancer, erectile dysfunction are all a possibility from high estrogen.
