BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control"
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@Mulloch94 I see that context is needed. My husband and I eat or drink something carby every 2 to 3 hours (as Nathan instructed). We have both lost weight and our temps and energy levels are great. He says if you wait until you're hungry that's too long. What IS eaten is also important. Pufas and industrial wheat products are forbidden and organic foods are essential. I'm just at a loss as to why people are so opposed. Im guessing I'm the only person here who has actually read the book.
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Friendly discussion is welcome. No tolerance for personal attacks. I do not want the drama. Take it somewhere else please.
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@S-Holmes No I've never read his book. Don't see the purpose, even if it does work I've found my own way through my problems. Also the last person I've seen to take up arms against the CICO school of thought was Cirion on the old forum, and one of his very last posts were him flipping out on Ray for supporting calorie reduction, and then he suddenly disappears. Rage quit the forum I guess, lol. I don't think he was being very truthful about his weight loss journey either. Just my opinion, so I can't prove anything.
I just found it weird he was gaining weight then a couple months later summed up his posting time on the forum by saying "Ray wrong, I keep getting better...bye bye now." I don't wanna be that guy that says "post pics or it never happened," but when someone claims they can defy CICO and eat 5,000-7,000 calories a day and lose weight I'd like to see more than just their words on a thread. Because I equate that statement to some astronaut going into space and tweeting "Wow, the earth really is flat." without sending picture evidence.
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@S-Holmes
Describing your passive-aggressive, ragequitting attitude while criticizing Hatch are not personal attacks. You obviously chose not to read my post, attacked me anyways, and like the pigeon and chessboard, declared yourself the winner. You are causing the drama by going into histrionics every time the topic doesn't go how you want, including ragequitting. Then you answered Mulloch with the info I, and I assume others, wanted anyway. So yeah, I've read your posts on RPF and I know you can write well and be descriptive but you decided to be an absolute donkey to me and, previously, anyone else who criticizes Hatch. So I can't see how describing your actions as ass kissing is a personal attack, you don't react like this to any other subject matter as I recall.Choose virtue over drama in the future, don't project, attack someone and play the victim.
@anyone else
For everyone else, I independently came up with the Hatch recommendations Holmes posted and can tell you, without sufficient hormones and thyroid, it may not make a difference. Very helpful and not to disparage, but many others came to the same conclusion on the (former lol) RPF to "eat what their grandparents ate" and their mileage varied as well. IME, T3 may still be warranted as well as hormonal replacement which I have done much more aggressively than Ray ever recommended. I still stand by not wanting to buy an expensive book for the same reason I wouldn't charge money for ppl to read my own personal experiments. -
@Mulloch94 Then this thread isn't for you. I'm interested in discussions with people who have read and applied his strategies.
My husband has had trouble sleeping through the night for many years. If nothing else had improved that would be enough for us. But there's more. I've tried to raise our metabolism for decades. I love Dr. Peat, but this NEVER happened before now...applying Nathan's methods.
I hope people will stop being a hindrance to others who havent seen much progress.
What's wrong with trying something different? (Rhetorical) -
My temperature just now (and every afternoon for the past 6 weeks).
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Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
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Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
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When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
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Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
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realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
"Bear...Seek...Seek...Lest."
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@NotShanalotte said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
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Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
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When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
-
Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
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realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
Based!
It's probably for the best I'm in the doghouse and she can't see my endorsement.
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@ThinPicking said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
@NotShanalotte said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
-
Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
-
When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
-
Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
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realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
Based!
It's probably for the best I'm in the doghouse and she can't see my endorsement.
Thank you, and yeah it's so weird on RPF she was eloquent and made long responses in most cases but now just making conversation is too much effort. We're better off this way.
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@S-Holmes What is your typical day in eating like (if there is any 'typical' day)? Do you use supplements?
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@BabyDuck We do take supplements. And we try to eat as close to Nathan's recommendations as possible. The things we eat now, every day, that we didn't before (or didn't eat a lot of): foods with tannin and beta carotene (NOT the supplement, usually carrots) with EVERY meal, daily fruit shake with green tea steeped in milk, casein, and tiger nut milk, organic sprouted or sourdough bread. Loaded salad (with cucumber, radishes, carrots, red cabbage, etc.) We eat meat, not many eggs, a little organic pasta. We absolutely avoid commercial and non organic wheat flour products.
We have sodium citrate a few times a day (lemon juice with salt added), and a cup of black tea with C, selenium, and a little lithium. We use sugar freely. We still have a little Mexican Cola daily.We avoid pufas (oils) completely, but some nuts are recommended (with the skin intact, for tannin).
One thing I didn't really expect. If you've been hypothyroid your entire life, when your metabolism is back in working order it can be uncomfortable. There will be some discomfort as healing begins. Even my husband, who never had a healing crisis in his life, has been having pains. Fortunately, they just come and go.
The supplements are a little complicated, and some should be taken together for full effect.. I'm still working those out.
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@S-Holmes said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
One thing I didn't really expect. If you've been hypothyroid your entire life, when your metabolism is back in working order it can be uncomfortable. There will be some discomfort as healing begins. Even my husband, who never had a healing crisis in his life, has been having pains. Fortunately, they just come and go.
Please expound on this
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@Peatful Not sure what you want to know but I can try and answer specific questions.
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What discomfort
What pain -
@Peatful Mostly his legs. But as I said, the pains came and went. He hasn't had any in several days. We live on a steep wooded hill and over the weekend he was burning a large brush pile at the bottom, which required many trips up and down the hill, all day long. Yesterday he had a little swelling in his knee that had never healed properly from an injury and surgery in high school. It's already back to normal. His temps are better than mine, and he is sleeping well (after decades of getting only 4 hours a night). We take extra aspirin, if needed, on days when a healing crisis is too distracting.
After I received an ethically sourced stem cell IV last year, I had a healing crisis (severe vertigo and leg weakness). I could barely walk. It lasted several weeks. Fortunately I knew that I was healing and it would pass. It did.
We are both in our 60's and not on any prescription meds. We never go to the doctor, although I've had self managed (homeopathy) Epstein-Barr since my 20's. We do take otc substances and supplements recommended by Dr. Peat, Georgi and Nathan.
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@BabyDuck I forgot one important thing. Silicic acid. I dissolve bamboo silica in lemon juice. Then add sugar, acacia fiber, modified citrus pectin, and water. The fiber and pectin aren't necessarily important but I like taking them for gut health.
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@S-Holmes Thank you for clarifying!
Admittedly I haven’t read his book, but took some tidbits regarding his diet from some of his articles and his instagram account. I’ve also tried his ‚exotic‘ supplement recommendations (bamboo silica and sodium bicarbonate plus acv). Can’t tell if it makes a hell of a difference though.
Haven’t heard about the importance of tannin and black tea until now. Could you elaborate on this?
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@BabyDuck Tannins can be found toward the end of this article. https://www.fuckportioncontrol.com/blog/2019/1/21/the-probable-cause-ofnbspautism
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I don't know enough about Nathan, I joined RPF after he stopped being active. I didn't want to buy his book, but only because I don't know him and his abilities. But when he offered his book for free for a limited time, I passed up on it because I was busy and it was too late when I got freed up.
But Fuck Portion Control is a nice title, as it challenges the status quo. IMHO, it needs an asterisk next to it. Credulous guys like Cirion run amuck in the land of the free* and the brave*, and needed to be saved from the obvious implausibility of advertising with a creative license to do so. Though CICO cannot be disregarded, there is an element of truth to the folly involved in portion control. I eat until I'm full. And I don't exercise and walk a lot. I can understand Ray when he hardly exercises, as there is an opportunity cost to wasting time walking the mandated 10,000 steps a day of a pop culture of horizontally challenged giants fed like factory chickens and pigs.
I have learned a lot from research and experiments and well-reasoned logic from giants that Ray Peat himself gets his ammo to refute the tyranny of conventional wisdom that is ever present that distracts us from absolute truth. And there in fact is absolute truth, when mined among a multitude of fool's gold that keeps us from discovering them.
The literature and academia keeps discovering a new distillation and synthesis of establishes truths, amidst meager funding. Yet it always overwhelmed by what is blessed and sanctioned by institutions. Amidst this, in the absence of a shared set of truths that form a stable foundation of knowledge, one has to dig into his inner wisdom and logic to discern illusion from reality.
I, for one, would like to throw away all that bathwater, for indeed it is mucked up in filth and sewage. But Ibkeep this in my thoughts, for gold is still there but to be mined in my own way. Without having to subject myself to scientism and its evidentiary obstacle course. It is a great weight and even an impossible burden to overcome. Which is why In chose to work mostly alone overcoming what ails me. To argue where words and prose would fail to overcome the decades and even centuries of falsehood masking as irrefutable laws in the pantheons of Hollywood and academia and mass media is a task only the Almighty can render bare and hollow.
I say this because as much as I like to share my findings with others, I will always be taken lightly if not outright refuted, for lacking the requisite proofs. Already, COVID-19 showed us the FDA's outsized influence in shaping policies and actions, with all institutions behind it, to use expensive and maliciously designed trials to disparage and trivialize clinical trials across the world to push vaccines and Paxlovid and the harmful Remdisivir over alternatives such as Ivermectin to a hapless population. What more do I stand a chance? What more do you?
As much as we want to play by the rules, the rules are stacked against us when we have to wait for someone else to do the painstaking research for us. And now that Ray Peat is gone, we have one less giant to ferret out the fool's gold to find gems that form a mosaic of truth to work with. For every time we research ourselves into the available scholarly works, we are overwhelmed by the jingoism and the use of language to confuse us into thinking that it's better to leave it to the "experts," conferred with titles and degrees, to lead us out of perdition. It is not worth it to bury ourselves in researching the studies, when we can't really trust the veracity of these sources, as funded by impure motives. Thus, if we go through the straight and narrow, we likely will find no answers but keep living in the hope that continuing research will lead us to the land of milk and honey.
Our search will thus take an analogous and parallel route to our search in spirituality, to soldier on with hope- guided by the medical and pharma experts, just as much as we are guided by religion and the salvation of end times.
I say, keep experimenting on yourself. Believe what you discover yourself firsthand, for there is really no alternative that can be better.
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@yerrag Well said my friend. We see eye to eye. As for CICO, I'm testing that theory. So far, (7 weeks in) no extra weight, feels like loss (I never weigh) but some probable redistribution. My husband says he is losing. Tbh, I'm working on metabolism first. Once that's fully restored I think the extra bit of weight may take care of itself.
