Any experiences with DHT?
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Dammit, I had a response typed out and I accidentally closed the tab and it didn't keep it for whatever reason.
I'm not sure what you're arguing for, though.
Topical androgens are generally less estrogenic than injected ones, and that's mainly due to the DHT. Sure it's not super potent, but it's still superior, IMO.
Even if you suppress yourself a bit, you will still exert a more potent androgen pressure on your tissues than without the DHT. So at the end of the day, it's still a win. The stories of people liking T + DHT instead of T + AI, is partial proof of that (although it's not fair, since they're on complete replacement)
The doses I've been using almost total to the 150mg you mention, as well. I do notice suppression at that dose, but like I said, I still come out on top.
I'll put it this way, I'd rather be partially suppressed from a high DHT level, versus a high estrogen level.
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@Mulloch94 said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Have tried normal DHT as well? I've been curious to here people's testimonies on how masteron compares to normal dht. I have a small baggie of Mast P but never used it.
Yessir. I've been using it probably for almost a solid 9 months at this point at a dose of 10-25mg a day.
The Mast didn't seem worth it, and I probably won't use it unless I run out of DHT. For my situation, the DHT is exactly what I need.
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@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Mast was very disappointing, even when used in high doses as a transdermal in a Benzyl alcohol solution.
So far only testosterone gives me good emotional and sexual feelings.I might give Tren base a try.
What exactly are you searching for?
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
I'm not sure what you're arguing for, though.
I don't exactly know, my thoughts were a bit scattered in this thread.
I guess my first point is I've seen a lot of testimonies from different folk complaining when they used DHT it gave them low estrogen symptoms. Well, the first thing I'd like to ask these people is how much of it did they take? Because "crashing your E2" with just pure DHT would take a rather high dose sustained over several days if not weeks. What's more likely - in the short-term anyways - is they've shifted their ratio of aromatizable androgens in favor of the 5-ar androgens. This will cause a dramatic increase in GABA at the expense of glutamate. If you look up the symptoms of excessive GABA production several of the side effects mimic some of the low E2 symptoms. This could possibly and partially be alleviated by adding P5, DHEA, and maybe even d-aspartic for the NMDA activity. Although I haven't seen this explored much in literature or people experimenting on themselves.
Another point is I'm not particularly a fan of aromatase inhibiting drugs. I know there's some belief that exemestane is comparatively safer than anastrozole or letrozole, but being suicidal means if you accidentally fuck up it's going to take a while to feel normal again. So I'm still hesitant about even trying that. So I've been liking this idea of mixing T with something like DHT, Mast, Proviron, etc. to help control the estrogen. However when you look at what some of the people like Derek and Leo say about this topic, these non-aromatizable androgen don't actually act on the aromatase. Rather there's some antagonistic effect on the transcription (DNA) and receptor levels. Meaning estrogen is still being created (unless you're not taking any testosterone, and your taking enough DHT to cause shutdown) but it apparently doesn't matter because your overall androgenicity is higher than your estrogenicity.
If this is true, then great. But I also question the overall inertness of the estrogen when it's still being created from T but it's just not causing any E related symptoms. Like, how do we know this won't cause health problems in the long run?
Have you seen this video before? Currently it seems to me that if someone were looking for the safest long-term TRT protocol with the least amount of "unanswered questions" I would think pinning the lowest possible yet effective dose of testosterone would be best. And preferably something like testosterone-propionate, not cypionate or enanthate. Because the latter esters would keep blood levels elevated longer and more susceptible to aromatase. And I'm not sure how this would translate over into topical methods. I haven't tried test-propionate topically, but regular test base at 100mgs will give me estrogen symptoms if I don't take something to counter it. But I'm wondering if I applied 100mgs of test-p once every other day if this wouldn't happen.
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@brightside said in Any experiences with DHT?:
@Santosh said in Any experiences with DHT?:
Mast was very disappointing, even when used in high doses as a transdermal in a Benzyl alcohol solution.
So far only testosterone gives me good emotional and sexual feelings.I might give Tren base a try.
What exactly are you searching for?
The ultimate steroid that would give me the most masculine face, oily skin, insane libido.
I think either tren base in DMSO or Mtren in DMSO might do the job. -
@Sugar How much were u taking?
The earth speaks to us all, Just listen
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@Andrewㅤ I think 2 or 3 drops. So 2-3 mg, maybe a bit more as an experiment. But 2-3 drops was like 6-7 drops of androsterone. Not to mention that the 11-keto-dht was in alcohol and I usually take androsterone in tocopherols. Not sure if it was the steroid itself that was more potent or the delivery.
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@Sugar Did you notice any physical changes. Masculine features? Strength? Muscle Growth? Or did it only affect mood
The earth speaks to us all, Just listen
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@Andrewㅤ I'm sure it attributed to some amount of changes but I've ordered androsterone bottles like 7 or 8 times so have more experience with it.
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@Sugar Okay cool thanks!
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On the RP forum you mentioned dissolving T in 50% ethanol 50% tocopherols. I mixed tocopherols with ethanol at home, and they do not mix well at all.
Did I understand you correctly that you mixed vitamin E with ethanol and dissolved T powder in it?
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@brightside can i just down the powder with water will that not work?
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I will chime in. I usually don't write on forums. Been reading, experimenting & formulating hormones for almost 10 years.
I will second this guy Brightside with regards to DHT.
You can try taking masteron propionate e.d. e.g. 80 mg or do Tren H (not e or a) and you will not get the same effect, in a harmonic and safe way.AAS just don't have the correct full genomic expression as natural endogenous hormones do esp. DHT expression. So anyone thinking else about trialing low dose winstrol, proviron or what not, you can achieve only so much compared to DHT.
A mere dose of 5mg in a 1:1 or 3:1 ethanol to vitamin e oil topically, starts to work after about 3 weeks. Inflammation, excessive thinking, unease and general stress does really drastically reduce after this period. Another clear noted effect is sustained erection even after climax.
My research and experience tells me a 30% absorption topical absorption is true so a 5mg would be well within physiological levels.
I have trialed the most exotic hormones since the age of 18 unfortunately, some injectables, some transdermal, some in DMSO, some in Ethanol, some in Vitamin E alone, some in weird carries like guaiacol. Nothing comes close to properly converted DHEA and DHT (Body and Mind)
@Santosh, your search for the ultimate androgen, is likely detrimental in the end, I say likely, because I assume I could be wrong. Here is why. Being to much on reddit once, I took one of the most potent androgens, Mtribolone I think, it had the most insane A:A rating. At any given dose it produced some sort of side effect, even if it improved physicality and mood...And like many other trialed hormones, in the hope for the ultimate elixir, they all seem to disappoint in the end. It is just not sustainable.
On libido, sexuality and lust. I have been on progesterone, aromasin, clomid, enclomiphene, DNP, nolvadex, hcg, dht, masteron, tren, eq, test e,c,p and many more hormones. Here is what I've learned. Sexual urges occurring around every 1.5-2 weeks seem to align with good health (that is just my experience and blood tests align with this esp. prolactin levels) and DHT + Progesterone maintain that interval nicely.
If anyone is interest in nymphomania, I can warmly recommend Pansterone eqv. 15mg at once
The alive feeling of testosterone is often related, partially, but mostly, to increased estrogen levels, as I've trialed testosterone in high doses with different aromatase inhibitors and or strong androgens like mast p/e, primo acetate and could mostly control this effect at will.
I HOPE THIS HELPS ANY NEWBIE OR READER. I am not trying to sound clever or anything, just wanted to share my I think, somewhat valuable experience.
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@jamezb46 They usual do mix. What sort of tocopherol are u using? Regular liquid vitamin e oil + ethanol absolute seems to work fine for me, if u dissolve the powder first with the ethanol and then add the vitamin e
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@Bye4ever do you always apply them topically? What area do you apply them to if so? Thank you
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@BeamsOfEnergy Yes always topically. I tried the powder orally as an experiment but the effect was mixed at best (small, high and mega doses). Topical effect is very consistent. I apply it anywhere usually lower neck area, inner arm area. The absorption rate is pretty high with ethanol so don't worry, no need to apply it to the scrotum or navel. Consistent usage is key, not area. Lastly, don't worry about it touching clothes. 2 drops smeared effectively will stay and absorb quickly.
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@Bye4ever thank you. Do you just take dht?
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What is the point of adding Vitamin E to the ethanol? Is that just to make the solution thicker for easier application?
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@BeamsOfEnergy I take DHT, DHEA and Progesterone. I took DHT alone for some months before resume the other 2 hormones.
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@Crypt-Keeper The point is to prevent evaporation of ethanol off the skin after application. I cannot remember the numbers mentioned from Georgi, but I think the absorption % is significantly diminished if it is just ethanol, as in under 10% absorption
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