Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results
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@tk The pizza is a big source of energy that the digestive tract probably really needs. It’s not ideal but it’s better than nothing. Why not any fruit, dried fruit, or juices as carb source?
Also what’s your waking oral temp and afternoon sedentary temp if u don’t mind? I have a client with POTS and gastroparesis and is clearly high estrogen and low thyroid
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
I suffer from POTS and gastroparesis among plenty of other issues. I also seem to have chronic SIBO/SIFO that my body is unable to rid.
Consider the possibility that thiamine deficiency is causing your problems.
suggested reading:
http://synergyhw.blogspot.com/2013/08/thiamin-deficiency-altered-circadian.htmlPOTS and thiamine: https://hormonesmatter.com/post-gardasil-pots-thiamine-deficiency/
also: https://hormonesmatter.com/energy-thiamine/
also: https://hormonesmatter.com/case-classic-beriberi-america-thiamine-deficiency/
also: https://hormonesmatter.com/energy-loss-cause-disease/SIBO and thiamine:
https://hormonesmatter.com/sibo-ibs-constipation-thiamine-deficiency/ -
@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
@BroJonas Thank you for your input.
Yes, high estrogen and low thyroid is definitely the state my body is stuck in. My metabolism is completely nonexistent.
Oxidative metabolism requires thiamine because it acts as an enzyme cofactor. Thiamine deficiency/functional blockage derails oxidative metabolism. Poor thyroid function is known as "the canary in the coal mine" when it comes to thiamine deficiency because the thyroid cannot do its job without cellular energy which is impossible to make if thiamine is deficient. Likewise, the liver has very poor function without cellular energy which isn't possible if there is a thiamine deficiency. Poor liver function equals high estrogen because good liver function is needed to detox estrogen.
Fruit has never done me well. I fully recovered my health multiple times and went back to drinking orange juice and didn't realize just how badly it deteriorated my health.
If you are borderline thiamine deficient, high sugar foods will deplete what thiamine you have because thiamine gets used up when converting sugar/glucose into energy (oxidative metabolism). A thiamine deficiency derails health by stopping oxidative metabolism.
When I consume fruit I get typical allergy symptoms, skin and hair quality drops and I lose so much weight I get cut to the bone regardless of calories/meal frequency. Even when I have built my health up my tolerance towards fruit doesn't seem to improve. At times I can tolerate a ripe banana but that is all.
You are describing beriberi, a full blown thiamine deficiency.
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency Signs, Symptoms, and Treatment Benefits -
Maybe just finding a pizza source that’s not got added vegetable oil (the fast food pizza I’m aware of is terrible).
If you really want to heal the gut: aspirin + glycine, gut cleaners like carrot salad, vitamin K (idealabs), a B complex (eonutrition), thiamine (eonutrition).
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
I suffer from POTS and gastroparesis among plenty of other issues. I also seem to have chronic SIBO/SIFO that my body is unable to rid.
Here is a clue
The Downside to High Oxalates – Problems with Sulfates, B6, Gut and Methylation
https://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/
Excess oxalate (> 50 mg/d) exhausts sulfur. If there is a lack of sulfate, a lack of methylation happens soon after. Biochemical chaos is in sight.
Detailed explanation:
When sulfate levels are low, the body won’t just have disturbed liver function, it will also suffer with all kinds of hormone problems. The reason why is that the body uses sulfate molecules to inactivate hormones. In a 2008 study also using NaS1 deficient mice, researchers showed that blood levels were reduced 50% for cortisol, 30% for DHEA, and 40% for DHEA-S.27 This massive loss of blood hormones was accompanied by a 1500% increase of cortisol spilt into the urine and lost as well.
(…)
We know that hormone production requires energy, vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids – things people with chronic health issues have in short supply. (…)Excerpt from my forum (in French, translator needed but with links in English)
Impact négatif de l’oxalate sur le métabolisme : Chaos biochimique !
Negative impact of oxalate on metabolism: Biochemical chaos!
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1959-impact-negatif-de-loxalate-sur-le-metabolisme-chaos-biochimique#28275
Most people are unaware of the problem.
Oxalates generate great biochemical chaos in the body (3), more than any other component (except mercury).
Problems linked to sulfur (and by extension histamine and salicylates) can be caused by a struggling metabolism, which is no longer able to process excess foods rich in oxalates. Oxalates interfere with sulfate transport. It is the entire metabolism (the liver via different systems linked to sulfation, methylation) and the deprivation of nutrients useful to intestinal bacteria, which are altered. For example, pyroxidine (B6) is depleted in this oxalate neutralization process. We need B6 in the process of exchanging an oxalate molecule with a sulfate molecule. B6 is necessary for the functioning of approximately 150 enzymes linked to approximately 60 genes that regulate neurotransmitters and liver detoxification as well as general metabolism. (4) -
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
tk
about an hour agoI am going to just continue to eat calorie dense food that digests and maintain the ice cream and lattes as they seem to help move things along as well as mitigate some of the negatives from these food choices.
Hi,
If you think that being able to go to stools with a specified kind of food is the right thing to do, you’ve got the wrong behavior. It tells you only it's laxative enough to get a bowel reaction.
I can make a suggestion but you aren't going to like it. But perhaps if you read testimonials, you may accept it …
By the way, B1 and B2 deficiency is the result of bad assimilation (inflamed bowel, poor digestion process and lack of assimilation of nutrients). -
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
What is your suggestion?
Part1
Everyone is reactive to Wga (agglutinin) and it may induce cross-reactive immune reaction by 50 % people not aware of the problem.
I said by all the people but most of us (85-90%) recover during the night. We recover an integrity of the intestine thanks to homeostasis (self-repair) provided we can rest peacefully during the night. To make short, hormones are functional. You don’t have to fight against low-grade inflammation.
Parenthesis:
RP gives / gave good advice when the body burns fuel in the right way or when the problem is due to a hormonal unbalance (his favorite field after his studies). But he is not an immunologist.
So keep the gate open but don’t base your choice on what has been well-established (…).
You’ve got the following signs: Poor digestion, inflammation, problem of transit. And of course nutrient deficiencies in this situation. + Lack of variety due to intolerant bowel.
:
Blé = Wheat; lait = milk; avoine = oat; maïs = corn.
Source: Paleo Mom.
*) L’alimentation ou la 3ème médecine – Jean Seignalet.
This brief approach allows most readers to grasp the impact on the overexposure of the immune system.
Diet in practice: Well, how could we summarize Seignalet in short? :
A diet free of gluten, casein and corn. Main guideline.
Better not cook above 110 °. Eat organic and local.
As far as oils is concerned (omega-3), we didn’t talk about EPA – DHA – GLA in nineties. Only from whole food.
Not to take literally. Seignalet is not a nutritionist but an immunologist.
As far as vegetables are concerned, raw for enzymes but not at the beginning when your bowels are irritated. We’d better eat them steam-cooked and according to what you can tolerate. Adapt yourself.
As far as pseudo-cereals are concerned, they are admitted but moderately. I advise to limit them once a day, a small portion. Buckwheat and rice do contain antinutrients. Like all cereals.
Not good for endothelial cells. Cereals cause zonulin secretion. Zonulin increases intestinal permeability (leaky gut). Tight junctions are no longer operational (by people suffering from poor digestion).
Additional link if you want to know why grains are not advised.
“Why grains are bad?”
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/03/how-do-grains-legumes-and-dairy-cause.html
From “How Do Grains, Legumes and Dairy Cause a Leaky Gut?”
Part 1: Lectins.- Part 2: Saponins and Protease Inhibitors of grains and legumes
From “How Do Grains, Legumes and Dairy Cause a Leaky Gut?”
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/03/how-do-grains-legumes-and-dairy-cause_29.html
- Part 2: Saponins and Protease Inhibitors of grains and legumes
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Part 2
Guidelines – Dr. Jean Seignalet: Principles of the Seignalet method
This brief approach is necessarily partial and therefore incomplete but it allows most readers to grasp the impact on the overexposure of the immune system.
*) Preamble
Many doctors and researchers consider, following an outrageous specialization, that food is not a decisive element in the approach of healing. And if some admit it, confronted with the success encountered by some of their patients who decided to take care of themselves, it is often in the form of a concession, at least at the start: "It cannot hurt ..."
"Primun non nocere", would have said Hippocrates: "First, do not harm" (410 BC). And for that it takes a holistic (global) approach. So we should not just treat a part of the body, focusing on the symptoms which are only the revealing of an often deep, sometimes old evil ... Note that the following is not "only" the synthesis of Seignalet's book.
*) Hereditary background
It must be admitted that there are favourable hereditary factors, called susceptibility genes. But they are far from sufficient, in the vast majority of cases (15-30 % as a determining factor only).
The combination with environmental factors is necessary. It is true that the various pollution weaken the terrain: chemicals, pollution (radiation and noise included), tobacco and other excesses (burn out, alcohol, drugs) greatly complicate the work of elimination / regeneration. We put our liver and kidneys to strong contribution. We are continuously soliciting our “bank of enzymes” to assimilate or neutralize / evacuate these excesses. Note that without enzyme, there is no more life: life stops...
*) Overload theory (congested system) (encrassage, in French => too much dirty)
However, some naturopaths claim that most diseases (80 %) are only the consequence of an overloaded / congested organism. We fall "sick" when our body takes out / evacuates the trash cans. In this case, the organism can no longer treat / evacuate excesses softly. It is as if you had kept the excesses of waste produced for 6 weeks: the garbage collectors refused excess work and they only took half of your garbage for 6 weeks, while warning and in trying to call you for moderation. You then ignored the warning and you buried this waste in the cellar, and you no longer thought about it, until the day when a pestilential odor was felt (infection pathology).
A large number of bacterial and food macromolecules are likely to penetrate the human organism. The principal responsible for this situation is "modern food" (Processed Foods => manufactured foods, with a lot of additives).
Modern food is far from the ancestral diet to which the enzymes and the intestinal mucosa were / are adapted. The main changes are:- Consumption of animal milks and their derivatives in a recurring (usual) and often excessive manner;
- Ingestion of mutated and cooked cereals;
- Using many manufactured products;
- An inappropriate cooking method (too cooked, too long, bathed in water, etc.);
- The use of denatured oils (refined, hydrogenated or simply cooked when provided with PUFA’s);
- The presence of many food additives;
- Deadly food (no enzymes), low in vitamins and certain trace elements.
*) Impact of manufactured food
- Certain foods are little or poorly digested, because we do not have appropriate digestive enzymes. Food macromolecules pass the brush barrier from our intestines and find themselves in the blood circulation ... intruder alert! (perceived as allergens).
- We eat "unbalanced". The intestinal flora is modified or impoverished (little diverse). The microbiome changes and often ferments: in the event of excess sugar (cereals for example), there is fermentation of this flora. In case of poor protein digestion, there is putrefaction (much more foul -smelling when you go to stool), with proliferation of certain dangerous bacteria...
NB 1: There is often an excess of protein because our stock of enzymes is "planned" to digest / assimilate + / 30 g of protein. In 100 g of meat there are +/ 20 g of protein. A portion of meat should therefore not exceed 150 g.
NB 2: In some cases we do not have appropriate enzymes or these enzymes are inhibited: a substance prevents metabolism from functioning properly…
Pathologists then speak of digestive leukocytosis: our immune system tries to absorb / neutralize these macromolecules or bacteria. - This perpetual imbalance attacks our intestinal mucosa, quite thin (villi of the intestinal barrier). NB: Our intestinal wall is in the form of a wall whose bricks are unsealed and let the rain and the wind pass (tight junctions not waterproof).
In the long run the intestinal barrier becomes too permeable: the Anglo-Saxons talks about the leaky gut syndrome (The tight junctions of the intestine barrier are no longer functional).
Figure: Healthy intestine barrier (filtering)
According to the encountered ground, the macromolecules which pass the intestinal barrier will not all have the same composition. The composition of these molecules is variable from one subject to another: it depends on the intestinal flora, therefore on the food mode. It depends on the ability of individuals to synthesize enzymes to catalyze reactions. Said more clearly, these enzymes will decouple / split nutrient food: proteins in amino acids, more or less unsaturated fatty oils and fats, starches and carbohydrates in simple sugars.
These nutrients will then be transformed into bioavailable molecules and will be transported to their destination site (cell or tissue), with more or less affinity. Sometimes it will go well and you will not notice anything or barely a stroke of fatigue for the digestion process. Sometimes a dysfunction and / or overload will gradually settle and trigger a pathology.
*) For an effective enzymatic activity
There are around fifty essential nutrients
- 8 amino acids,
- 13 vitamins,
- 2 unsaturated fatty acids (hence the name "essential fatty acids"),
- around twenty minerals and trace elements,
- plus a number of molecules, such as cholesterol, which can be partly synthesized from the nutrients mentioned above.
The purpose of many of them is to ensure an effective enzymatic activity, as already specified: enzymes are indeed the heart of the problem. And of course we will take care to limit disruptors and place enzymes / reaction catalysts in the best appropriate conditions (hypotoxic diet, in particular). Enzymes are reactions catalysts, facilitators.
*) There are 3 types of pathologies
Macromolecules poorly decomposed / assimilated can cause three kinds of pathologies: - Autoimmune diseases (majority of RA, spondylarthritis, etc.)
- Congestion diseases (75 % of type 2 diabetes, osteoarthritis, fibromyalgia, etc.)
- Elimination diseases (more than 90 % for: acne, colitis, RCH, asthma, hay fever; 75 % for psoriasis, etc.).
*) A little immunology
(…)
*) Remission or healing
(…)
*) Useful links
(…)
To be continued if interested.Endless statement: If you think you’re not concerned, or it’s too difficult to undertake, forget what’ve you’ve just read. Put it in the back of your mind, until you have no other option. At this point, it will be even more complicated to see the end of the tunnel but you will have no other option left. You will then have tried quite a few options. Hopefully you will still have enough energy to initiate homeostasis / recovery of a partial state of health…
Hope it can help. -
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
I am going to just continue to eat calorie dense food that digests and maintain the ice cream and lattes as they seem to help move things along as well as mitigate some of the negatives from these food choices.
Ray said that calcium was protective to the intestines and that is how I feel when I eat the ice cream and coffees.
I just hope it's sustainable and I don't start declining after a short while. I know there are people that have tried reintroducing wheat and reverted back to a more 'normal' diet to only eventually have it catch up with them.
When I initially recovered I was eating a moderate carb, low fat diet and taking vitamin d, k2, magnesium, b1, b2, niacinamide and pine pollen. I will try some b1 as recommended by @mostlylurking over the next few weeks. I haven't had any luck with supplements in the past couple of years except some digestive enzymes working by luck when I had reached a very low point but they also no longer work.
I used to be very very sick. For decades. Regarding my digestion:
- I couldn't swallow food consistently because my esophageal peristalsis did not work. I would get into trouble some days by simply trying to swallow a sip of water.
- My stomach acid was very very low. This part is extremely important. If you have low stomach acid, you cannot digest your food. You get no nourishment from it. The non-digested food then moves into the small intestine where it sits and rots. Because it has not been treated with stomach acid, the small intestine cannot absorb the nutrients.
- I had SIBO. The small intestine is supposed to be sterile and is supposed to move the digesting/digested food through it quickly with peristalsis. If this isn't working, bacteria finds its way up from the colon and into the small intestine. Then through the stomach, up the esophagus, and into the mouth. Not good.
- I had leaky gut. This happens when the integrity of the intestinal wall is compromised and partially digested food molecules (and bacterial toxins =endotoxin) find their way through the intestinal wall and into the blood stream. It made me very sick. I became hyper-sensitive to almost all foods because my body interpreted the food molecules that got into my blood stream as foreign invaders.
- I was either constipated or had projectile diarrhea. Never normal. This went on for decades.
In the summer of 2020, I took multiple antibiotics for a UTI. One of them was Bactrim. Bactrim blocks thiamine function. Because I had been living with poor thiamine status for a long time, the Bactrim nearly killed me.
I emailed Ray Peat and asked for help regarding how to heal my gut. He responded that "thiamine and magnesium are needed to heal the gut". He told me to limit the amount of thiamine hcl to 1500mgs per day. I told him that I have mercury toxicity. He told me that if I had heavy metal poisoning, "all bets are off". I took that to mean I might need more than the 1500mgs of thiamine.
I started supplementing thiamine hcl October of 2020. I started with 300-350 mgs of thiamine hcl, dissolved in water only, at least 30 minutes from eating anything. Within 45 minutes of taking that first dose, my brain fog cleared, my inflammation disappeared, and my body temperature increased a full degree to normal (98.6). But of course, it didn't stay that way.
Over the next 4 months I slowly increased the amount of thiamine hcl dose and had gotten up to 750mgs twice a day (mid-morning & mid-afternoon) =1500mgs per day. I felt that I needed to increase my dose yet again. I searched on line and found Dr. Costantini's website. I read his Therapy page which said that my optimum dose (based on body weight) should be 1 gram of oral thiamine hcl twice a day (equals 2 grams per day). So I tried that dose. After 2 days on that dose, my entire digestive tract normalized. I was hungry and wanted a beef steak. I had been unable to eat meat for years because I didn't have any stomach acid. I bought one, cooked it, ate it (delicious!) and digested it with no problems. I ate another one the next day, and the next. No problems. It's been at least 3.5 years since I started taking my optimum dose of 1 gram of thiamine hcl, twice each day. I'm still doing very well with no digestive issues.
I have recovered my health via high dose thiamine hcl (and magnesium glycinate). My digestion works great! My food allergies are all gone. My inflammation is a thing of the past. Many health issues have resolved, including scoliosis.
My situation is not unique. Dr. Costantini successfully treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients in Italy with high dose thiamine hcl. There is a connection/correlation between long term digestive problems and developing Parkinson's Disease. Take a few minutes and watch Dr. Costantini's patients' before and after videos.
I feel like my body is stuck in starvation mode, which is why supplements or nothing else seems to do anything for me anymore. The past 8 years have been brutal and I really don't know how my body has managed to survive to be honest.
You've got that right. You cannot digest your food because your autonomic nervous system controls your digestion process and it requires thiamine to work. In addition, you cannot make ATP (cellular energy) from nutrients via oxidative metabolism without thiamine because it acts as an enzyme cofactor in the citric acid cycle.
Beriberi is the name of the disease caused by thiamine deficiency. People die from beriberi.
suggested reading:
https://hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-causes-problems/https://hormonesmatter.com/sibo-ibs-constipation-thiamine-deficiency/
https://www.mercuryfreekids.org/mercury101/2018/1/21/thiamine-saves
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@mostlylurking said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
I have recovered my health via high dose thiamine hcl (and magnesium glycinate). My digestion works great! My food allergies are all gone. My inflammation is a thing of the past. Many health issues have resolved, including scoliosis.
@mostlylurking
Great post. Thanks for the links.
Indeed a deficiency in thiamine has a huge impact on the brain-stomach axis through the vagus nerve.@tk
There is a strict protocole to follow when supplementing thiamine. Read the links before starting.
To summarize overton main ideas (nutritionist): B1 Thiamine protocol
Mega-dose of thiamine: beyond the resolution of "deficiencies"- By saturating the cell, you can bypass the low affinity and restore the enzymatic function in its normal state. (=> Justification for the use of megadoses). Some people do not suffer from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block (blocked enzymes)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2045-english-corner-anti-stress-neuro-protective-effects-of-thiamine-b1#29728
Active and passive diffusion. Capacity of certain forms to cross the encephalic barrier. Supra-physiological contribution. Interaction (diagram) and example of dosage.
*) This could be a game changer!
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2016-this-could-be-a-game-changer#29423- Pharmacological dosage of thiamine
Target for high dosage:
B1 300 - 350 mg 2x/dy
B1 => Towards 750 mg 2x/dy (in 3 steps)
B1 => then 1 gr 2x/dy according to Dr. Costantini
His protocol (with potassium) :
https://highdosethiamine.org/hdt-therapy/
2 gr of B1 per day, before and after the lunch (Midday)
NB: We do not increase the dose until the discomfort has regressed in the event of side effects. - Read the references given in this post, particularly the references 10 - 11, notably Dr. Allil Overton.
- You will need Mg. 380 - 450 mg of Mg element to activate thiamine.
- Dosage of Thiamine HCL. Contraindication.
*) Original text (source)
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON speaking (nutritionist) (multiplex) – Part 2 – Video 2:04:02
This is the second of two lectures I gave (Dr Overton speaking) to a group of medical/health professionals on the clinical application of high-dose vitamin B1. In this video I outline the difference between nutritional deficiency and the concept of "functional dependence". I then discuss the practical aspects of forming a protocol including: - Which form to use and why - How to dose for different conditions - When to use this therapy and when not to use this therapy - Managing patient side effects.
*) 10 hallmarks of the video- 07.059”: Basic Definitions
- 08.21”: Nutritional Deficiency
- 08.40”: High Calorie Malnutrition
- 11.12”: Functional Dependency
- 29.49”: Symptoms of B1 Deficiency
- 32.22”: Therapeutic Use of B1
- 34.40”: Forms of Thiamine Can You Use
- 45.05”: Peripheral Neuropathy
- 47.12”: Disulfide Derivatives
- 49.47”: Heavy Metal Chelating Ability
-
- By saturating the cell, you can bypass the low affinity and restore the enzymatic function in its normal state. (=> Justification for the use of megadoses). Some people do not suffer from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block (blocked enzymes)
-
@LucH said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
@mostlylurking said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
I have recovered my health via high dose thiamine hcl (and magnesium glycinate). My digestion works great! My food allergies are all gone. My inflammation is a thing of the past. Many health issues have resolved, including scoliosis.
@mostlylurking
Great post. Thanks for the links.
Indeed a deficiency in thiamine has a huge impact on the brain-stomach axis through the vagus nerve.@tk
There is a strict protocole to follow when supplementing thiamine. Read the links before starting.I'm not clairvoyant, but I suspect that you are relying on Elliot Overton for this "strict protocol"? Although I've researched thiamine for almost 4 years, I've never come across a singular "strict protocol". Different "experts" have different protocols. But they have different favorite thiamine types and therefore different protocols.
Dr. Costantini's work came before Overton's. Dr. Costantini only used thiamine hcl, mainly by injection, but also orally and the conversion for dose amounts are provided on his Therapy page.
To summarize overton main ideas (nutritionist): B1 Thiamine protocol
Mega-dose of thiamine: beyond the resolution of "deficiencies"- By saturating the cell, you can bypass the low affinity and restore the enzymatic function in its normal state. (=> Justification for the use of megadoses). Some people do not suffer from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block (blocked enzymes)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2045-english-corner-anti-stress-neuro-protective-effects-of-thiamine-b1#29728
I really do think that reading Dr. Costantini's website is immensely helpful. Dr. Costantini successfully treated thousands of sick patients using high dose thiamine hcl. His Therapy info is here. His research papers are here. The patient videos are here. The FAQs are here.
Active and passive diffusion. Capacity of certain forms to cross the encephalic barrier. Supra-physiological contribution. Interaction (diagram) and example of dosage.
*) This could be a game changer!
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2016-this-could-be-a-game-changer#29423- Pharmacological dosage of thiamine
Target for high dosage:
B1 300 - 350 mg 2x/dy
B1 => Towards 750 mg 2x/dy (in 3 steps)
B1 => then 1 gr 2x/dy according to Dr. Costantini
His protocol (with potassium) :
https://highdosethiamine.org/hdt-therapy/
2 gr of B1 per day, before and after the lunch (Midday)
NB: We do not increase the dose until the discomfort has regressed in the event of side effects. - Read the references given in this post, particularly the references 10 - 11, notably Dr. Allil Overton.
- You will need Mg. 380 - 450 mg of Mg element to activate thiamine.
Apparently, these doses pertain to thiamine hcl. Yes? Different forms require different doses. That said, until recently, research targeted thiamine hcl. It is the oldest form and is considered a "safe supplement".
Kindly note that Dr. Costantini's protocol dosage is based on the patient's body weight. It is not this set dosage for everyone. Dr. Costantini did not promote other supplements with the thiamine so I don't know whose protocol you are referring to regarding the "with potassium". It is my understanding that potassium can get depleted when high dosing thiamine; I simply drink orange juice for my potassium. Other people's potassium requirements may vary from my own. It is my understanding that potassium supplementation can be tricky. This is why I chose to use a food source for it.
I've gone to the Elliot Overton video that you linked below. Beginning at the 38 minute mark, information about thiamine hcl is provided. Please note that major improvement in response to thiamine hcl, taken orally, happens when the amount is higher (500mgs-1000mgs) as noted in the visual aids. Discussion regarding thiamine hcl getting into the system via "passive diffusion" at higher doses occurs around the 39 minute mark. I suspect this is why Dr. Costantini started his patients on high doses straight away. That said, I myself did take some time working up to my optimum dose of 1 gram, 2 times a day, mainly because I was going it alone without a doctor's help and I had not yet found Dr. Costantini's website.
One of the problems that I've found when researching thiamine is that different experts prefer different forms of thiamine and the different forms require different dosages. Dr. Costantini always used thiamine hcl; Elliot Overton, Dr. Chandler Marrs, and Dr. Derrick Lonsdale all prefer TTFD.
Again, whose instructions are these for the amount of magnesium? Perhaps I'm just having difficulty because of the way this is presented. It seems that you are flipping from Elliot Overton to Dr. Costantini then back to Elliot Overton?
Tolerance for magnesium supplementation is improved via thiamine supplementation.
- Dosage of Thiamine HCL. Contraindication.
*) Original text (source)
Did you simply copy/paste from another site? Source?
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON speaking (nutritionist) (multiplex) – Part 2 – Video 2:04:02
This is the second of two lectures I gave (Dr Overton speaking) to a group of medical/health professionals on the clinical application of high-dose vitamin B1. In this video I outline the difference between nutritional deficiency and the concept of "functional dependence". I then discuss the practical aspects of forming a protocol including: - Which form to use and why - How to dose for different conditions - When to use this therapy and when not to use this therapy - Managing patient side effects.
*) 10 hallmarks of the video- 07.059”: Basic Definitions
- 08.21”: Nutritional Deficiency
- 08.40”: High Calorie Malnutrition
- 11.12”: Functional Dependency
- 29.49”: Symptoms of B1 Deficiency
- 32.22”: Therapeutic Use of B1
- 34.40”: Forms of Thiamine Can You Use
- 45.05”: Peripheral Neuropathy
- 47.12”: Disulfide Derivatives
- 49.47”: Heavy Metal Chelating Ability
-
Thank you for the link to the Elliot Overton video. There's 2 of these videos; together they are over 3.5 hours long. Elliot is very knowledgeable; so was Dr. Costantini.
- By saturating the cell, you can bypass the low affinity and restore the enzymatic function in its normal state. (=> Justification for the use of megadoses). Some people do not suffer from what we call a nutrient deficiency but from a metabolic block (blocked enzymes)
-
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@tk said in Reintroduced Wheat - Confused With Results:
@mostlylurking Phenomenal post, thank you.
Low stomach acid is why I can't eat proper whole food meals. My gums receed rapidly even if I try eating a cooked steak, let alone rice or potatoes. Last time I had a cup of rice before bed I woke up and couldn't walk because my knees and legs were so arthritic and locked. Had to crawl to the bathroom and have my mum cook for me until late afternoon.
Have you read the articles that I posted earlier?
In 2017 when I had a full recovery and I was taking the supplements mentioned earlier in high doses I actually triggered my stomach acid to switch back on in realtime. It was like something was preventing my pancreas from functioning because it began with a burning pain in that area and the next day I had this substance in the same area that had actually seeped through to my waistband. I was excited when it happened because my ears had popped and my throat had cleared/opened up, until it kept just going and going - it was so hot I thought my ribcage was going to melt. I actually went to ER eventually. Around this time I had cleared the infection but at a big cost, because I didn't dial back the dosages and forced my body to clear it rapidly my kidneys were extremely sore and I was bedridden the entire following two weeks. Fortunately I emailed Ray and he made the perfect recommendation at that time which allowed me to avoid cooking.
What did you take to clear the infection? Dosages of what? Did you take antibiotics? If yes, do you remember which one(s)? How long ago was this?
You have motivated me to give b1 another try. Amazoniac had mentioned to me in the past to not take orally due to potentially feeding microbes - would a topical b vitamin solution suffice? Also does the dosage have to be so high?
Please read the articles I've posted earlier and in this response. A topical b vitamin solution is totally inadequate.
High doses of thiamine are anti-carcinogenic. In addition, low doses of thiamine are considered carcinogenic.
There is another possibility that you might consider. There is a sublingual thiamine mononitrate available that is absorbed under the tongue. You must follow the directions precisely or it won't work. I have no idea if this sublingual route is adequate for your situation. I am not a doctor and I don't play one on TV. What you have described here makes me think that you need medical intervention with thiamine by injection or by IV.
It is important to understand that thiamine deficiency is extremely serious. Wernicke's encephalopathy can turn into Korsakoff syndrome. Korsakoff syndrome is permanent brain damage.
I had Wernicke's encephalopathy fall of 2020. I managed to recover via high dose thiamine hcl, taken orally. It took 4 months.
Here are a few articles about thiamine and the microbiome:
https://hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-microbiome/
also:
https://hormonesmatter.com/harmful-effects-antibiotics-human-microbiome/
also:
https://hormonesmatter.com/gastrointestinal-disease-thiamine/Likely I will also try topical magnesium and d3. Maybe even a tsp of pine pollen to try and drop my estrogen. Just worried about the potential allergenicity of the latter, I don't want to mess my gut up any further.
Sublingual D3 is a good option. Soaking in an epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) is helpful. Your liver needs thiamine in order to do its job of detoxing estrogen. Your liver function will improve from taking high dose thiamine.
Please read this article: https://www.mercuryfreekids.org/mercury101/2018/1/21/thiamine-saves
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