Increasing caffeine tolerance/metabolism?
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It sounds like you’ve not used sugar in your coffee for all these years? If so that would likely explain it.
An exogenous stimulant will bypass the natural function of glucose inducing t4 conversion into t3 in the liver, and its subsequent increased energy production/use in the body. The lack of glucose in such a case is causing the body to retroactively produce glucose via gluconeogenesis by elevating adrenaline and cortisol. This is taxing your liver long term, which is the source of sugar (glycogen) storage — the ability to sleep, fast, and handle things like caffeine is a great determinant of how healthy someone’s liver is, because it indicates how efficient their sugar metabolism is.
Danny Roddy talks about how coffee before bed actually helps him sleep longer because it helps maintain energy production longer — Ray talked about quality sleep actually being a high energy act. You need adequate sugar metabolism for that.
If I had to guess, You are likely suffering from excess adrenaline and/or cortisol production from not getting enough sugar in the diet in relevant proximity to the caffeine intake.
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@SpaceManJim it's a natural herb. very food based rather than supplements, the tea is used as food in korea
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@LetTheRedeemed Damn yeah that makes a lot of sense and may be what's going on. I guess it creeps up on you and as a dude it's very tempting/easy to keep telling yourself you're fine and pushing through whatever.
I always thought having a bit of milk with my coffee was enough, but maybe not? I'll keep at the sugar for sure. I just did it this morning after posting the thread, certainly I feel more level and better energy thus far, sleep, we'll see...
'Coffee before bed' that's crazy though XD Maybe that's the goal one day, I envy those people who can have an espresso at 7pm with dinner and be fine.
Anyways regarding the sugar with coffee, I'll try... 10 grams to start (per basic cup of coffee)? That's pretty sweet-tasting, but only 40 calories so whatever (I never understood people worrying about adding milk/sugar to coffee... worry about the crap food eating out!).
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@SpaceManJim said in Increasing caffeine tolerance/metabolism?:
Damn yeah that makes a lot of sense and may be what's going on. I guess it creeps up on you and as a dude it's very tempting/easy to keep telling yourself you're fine and pushing through whatever.
Yeah I thought I was being cool needing less sleep but now I’m fighting for 10 hrs a night again lol.
I always thought having a bit of milk with my coffee was enough, but maybe not? I'll keep at the sugar for sure. I just did it this morning after posting the thread, certainly I feel more level and better energy thus far, sleep, we'll see...
Unfortunately not — unless you’re eating a really carb dense food with it like rice or bread. One mistake Danny found with clients, was them habitually letting a sugary latte be a standalone meal/snack, and even that wasn’t enough to provide enough calories. I’ve found I personally need approx 1.5 teaspoons of sugar per espresso shot, and should have a meal near it.
'Coffee before bed' that's crazy though XD Maybe that's the goal one day, I envy those people who can have an espresso at 7pm with dinner and be fine.
Right lol. I personally can’t go later than like 6pm. On a good day I drank a coke before bed tho — and it helped.
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I find my coffee tolerance goes way up when I have low gut inflammation and consistently avoid foods that I am sensitive/have slight allergic reactions to. It could be related to better liver function from less endotoxins or something - I am not sure.
For reference, I am averaging around 6 cups of strong coffee per day and feel like I only get the nice thyroid boosting/high vibe/wellbeing effects, without any side effects like anxiousness or jitteriness.
In the past I thought Ray might've been wrong about caffeine but I think it was because my physiology wasn't in a good state and I couldn't enjoy the benefits of caffeine.
Have you tried tinkering with your diet to see if certain foods make you feel better or worse?
My experience is that when I already feel good, I can drink tons of coffee, but when I feel bad (endotoxin feeling) I can not have very much coffee, and it doesn't "work" that well (i.e., I have a cup of coffee but don't get any good feelings or it even makes me feel worse). But the feeling good part has to come first, and for me that is dependent on my diet to a very large extent.
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Also I have a feeling that butter fat helps with coffee tolerance a lot. I have been eating a lot of butter with my meals lately and been feeling great along with the increased coffee. Maybe the saturated fat helps to stabilise blood sugars?
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@LetTheRedeemed said in Increasing caffeine tolerance/metabolism?:
If I had to guess, You are likely suffering from excess adrenaline and/or cortisol production from not getting enough sugar in the diet in relevant proximity to the caffeine intake.
Yeah, it was also exactly my case before I started peating...
I thought then that nervousness/agitation was because of caffeine, but in reality, it was just a lack of carbohydrates...
Peating fixed the problem
By the way, @SpaceManJim, you may also want to add L-theanine or collagen to your coffee, which will also help lower cortisol and adrenaline.
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@Korven said
I find my coffee tolerance goes way up when I have low gut inflammation and consistently avoid foods that I am sensitive/have slight allergic reactions to. It could be related to better liver function from less endotoxins or something - I am not sure.
I think this is related to whether or not I can handle caffeine before bed, too.
...@Kvirion right?!
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@LetTheRedeemed
Yes, it's a systemic effect. A well-maintained and nourished body can better cope with the effective metabolism boosted by coffee."Very small doses of caffeine have a paradoxical sedative effect, but this is a familiar effect of anything which raises the brain's energy level." - Nutrition For Women, Ray Peat, PhD
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"Symptoms to expect when you do coffee right are calmness, focus, motivation, warmth, and stable energy. Coffee done wrong leads to anxiety, shakiness, sweating, feeling wired, inability to focus, and sometimes cold extremities."
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2014/06/04/coffee-done-right-tips-to-help-avoid-coffee-intolerance/Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
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@Kvirion said in Increasing caffeine tolerance/metabolism?:
"Very small doses of caffeine have a paradoxical sedative effect, but this is a familiar effect of anything which raises the brain's energy level." - Nutrition For Women, Ray Peat, PhD
Not for everyone whenever you feel anxious. Caffeine is anxiogenic and not appropriate when your diaphragm tells you you'd better change your mind and try to relax.
However, this is a transitory effect. And by the way, coffee, even with a lot sugar and milk, is not all black or white. I agree that caffeine is pro-metabolic but not in every situation, and only if you don't suffer from surrenals ...
I can give a link if interested. -
Thanks for the responses everyone. Re-evaluating sugar seems to be helping quite a bit - and the amount that feels good seems to be in line with 5-10 grams per cup. I'm able to tolerate 2 cups again, up from 1. We'll see how high it ends up going lol.
""Symptoms to expect when you do coffee right are calmness, focus, motivation, warmth, and stable energy. Coffee done wrong leads to anxiety, shakiness, sweating, feeling wired, inability to focus, and sometimes cold extremities.""
This right here seems very much correct! No shakiness or "tired-but-wired" feeling, and sleep these past few days has been a bit better, but I know new habits take a while to test.
I suppose I've been progressing over the years - black coffee in my early 20s, adding some milk in my late 20s, and now I'm adding sugar I guess. Better metabolic and stress tolerance habits as I age. It's like there's some reserve of stress tolerance we build up as carefree teenagers that we slowly but surely deplete through dumb habits (black coffee, fasting, etc) and life stress as we get older. Well, never too late to get on the right track, right?
