(edit - replying to @Norwegian Mugabe) But he takes 100+ supplements daily

Yeah I really don't get this guy. His diet is so good apparently but is insufficient to:

1. get him the nutrients he needs, so he takes 100+ supplements,

2. keep healthy hormone levels, so he takes testosterone and other hormones

Really weird approach. I'd think the diet is foundational, and supplements should be the minimum to fill in gaps.

I think his approach is literally the "chatGPT" of health. He'll follow midwit science ("oh this is good, so is this, and this, let's supplement all these things!") and put it all together and end up with this weird frankenstein approach where his positive results and appearance is probably explained 95% by testosterone, weight loss/cleaner diet (he was quite pudgy before), and good sleep.

Damn that's pretty sad... I remember reading briefly about all his high maintenance pre-cautions he takes in order to travel, planning in the extra sleep, meticulously packing all these vitamins and supplements and other remedies. And the man supposedly exercises every day too and has great strength for his age and size...

But then he just breaks his ankle dancing, doing normie people stuff?

Pretty damning to his whole philosophy imo.

https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1860016163960557983?t=23RTNKqCiXfOpIRQd6QrUA&s=19

Interesting follow up, posted an exhaustive list of biomarkers and physical tests.

A lot of these seem really good tbh.

@Gardner how is lowering his metabolic rate going to help with longevity? What happens when he gets sick or injured?

https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1859962709988798824?t=KGCHEIo5VYbLEbwjQFd2xQ&s=19

Here's a study he cites:

https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1859980688520564954?t=83yeQBngnlPuIiIuqTOz9Q&s=19

I think this is a poor approach. We need to dig out those sources about caloric restriction not necessarily being the longevity panacea that people think. IIRC it was the restriction of other nutrients that actually helped, not lower calories.

Johnson's influence and following is potentially going to lead to really poor outcomes in others. A major issue is that Johnson is not natural, i.e. he takes exogeneous hormones that others won't want to do (or even realize). He needs them because his odd diet and extreme supplementation regime cannot support healthy testosterone levels.

The one good thing I think he does is preach the importance of consistent good sleep. Otherwise I'm not so sure on this guy.

This is such fantastic work! I wish there was like a crowd funding system for this type of independent scientific research, I'd chip in money lol. And as a reward maybe give ppl the raw data and/or write up.

An interesting mix of B vitamins, why those 3 in particular? Anyone have the cliff notes?

Maybe those are good longevity health supps

@sneedful Can you link to him recommending these ratios? Is this recent?

Just the other day I watched a video on him recommending 100-200 micro(u)grams of K2/day, which would be about 1mg/week.

As well, I saw a vid of him recommending 20 IU of vitamin E/day. I guess that's closer at 140 IU/week.

There's a wide range of recommendations out there, and maybe what's best for muscle growth isn't the best for health, despite muscle being very important (especially in the elderly).

Let's assume we're talking about adults (primarily males) that regularly do resistance training / lift weights.

From the bodybuilding side of things, here's a few data points to consider:

• A common meta-analysis is cited by many in the science-based lifting community that 1.6g/kg/day is "optimal" - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376
• A more common 'bro' recommendation is to just get 1/g/lb (2.2g/kg)
• There's more recent evidence that even more may be beneficial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAZdUP6dZQ (this states that up to 1.6g/kg is a great improvement over the RDA, but that you can get increased, though diminishing, returns up to 3.1g/kg)
• Lyle McDonald, a fairly legit strength and hypertrophy coach and author focusing on natural lifers, recommends towards the higher end as well (2.2 - 3.0g/kg), with some reasonable justifications, i.e. protein goes towards far more than just muscle - https://bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/protein-requirements-growth#Protein_Requirements_for_Athletes
• Some anecdotal datapoints, a lot of 'top youtube natural lifters' such as Alex Leonidas, Geoffrey Schofield, Natural Hypertrophy, Basement Bodybuilding, skew to the lower end at 1.6g/kg or even a bit less.
• Renowned bodybuilder and original thinker Mike Mentzer in general recommended '25% of calories to be from protein' which for most people would probably be somewhere around 0.8-1g/lb of protein/day. He also did some interesting math showing that if one wanted to build something like 20lbs of muscle in a year (that's a lot!), they'd only need to eat something like 10grams a day above their maintenance needs for it to add up, while staying at a slight calorie surplus.
• Most bodybuilders on anabolics almost always go higher than 1g/lb from what I've seen. Could it be that anabolics allows better utilization of protein so it isn't wasted? Could the fact that they don't need to rely on fats and carbs for hormone support also contribute to this?

From what I've heard and understood from the Peat world side of things, here's a few points:

• Peat himself has recommended at least 100g/day for adults - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygyxqxlx51U
• Danny Roddy posted what looks like a solid Peat-inspired day of eating, which someone in the comments worked out to be around 125g of protein at >3000cals, probably somewhere between 1.2-1.6g/kg for his size - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGEbaCiih5o
• @haidut has given recommendations (iirc) of anywhere from 1g/kg (yes, per kg) up to 2g/kg at the most for a serious bodybuilder. I recall him citing issues with excess ammonia from protein breakdown becoming a health concern. I'd be really interested to see where he recommends something specific for optimal muscle building, and/or citing studies showing excess protein leading to ammonia-related problems in humans, because I don't recall exactly, and haven't seen elsewhere problems to do with high protein intakes.
  Here's one interview I had watched a while back that touched on some of these things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXbBUVPMj5E
  (I need to get transcripts for a bunch of these interviews and throw em in a chatbot one day :))

So there's some info from different perspectives. I think the 'mean recommendation' to get solid results while erring on the side of safety is probably something like 1.6-1.8g/kg/day. This isn't even discussing the primary sources that go into most people's bodybuilding diets, which I reckon are chicken breast, whey, and some eggs and red meat mixed in.

What do you guys think, any more info/research suggesting that extra protein is wasted past a certain point, or even harmful? To be honest I really haven't seen any solid research to indicate that very high (>1g/lb) protein diets are harmful in humans, unless we are talking about pure keto or other silliness which neglects critical nutrients.

I'm curious what you guys think are ideal ratios, and safe quantities. Specifically we're talking A, D, E, K(2).

For example, @haidut 's estroban is as follows:

Vitamin A - 6,000 IU
Vitamin D - 2,000 IU
Vitamin E - 200 IU
Vitamin K2 (MK-4) - 2mg

So something like 30 : 10 : 1, at 2mg K2

And since fat solubles build up, are we sure that the amounts above are safe? For example, the A is 2x the recommended 3000 IU per day. But then there's the other vitamins "balancing it out". Also, is that amount of D on the low side? Ditto for E and K2 - though I've never seen any guidelines for K2.

So as a starting point, are these optimal and safe amounts? Or what might one change? Assuming for an average adult male let's say.

@Jakeandpace why not provide the link or reference for us? If you don't mind