Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating"
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In combination with stress, pot smokers can release THC from the tissues and get high that way (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782342/). Other estrogens can also be stored in the tissue and released during stress. Psychosis is the inefficient usage of oxygen, compounded with cortisol, low vitamin D and high PTH, and when you're high you're definitely burning fat instead of using sugar. Though he's a guy and taking T3 only (tyronene) instead of T3/T4 (tyromix), I have heard that it's more stressful to the organism taking only T3. DHEA can also turn into estrogen, assuming he's young, typically you wouldn't want to supplement DHEA.
No clue why he's supplementing betaine hcl, doesn't it just increase methionine? Not peaty.
Anyway. If I were to guess, 1) his diet did not match at all the supplements he was taking, and 2) progesterone does clear out tissue estrogen, so if he didn't take enough, all that compounded estrogen that's released and circulating went not-as-opposed as it should have been. in combination with stress, yeah he just goes fight or flight or delirium.
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@brotherwentcrazy said in Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating":
@eric he is 24; I'll see if I can put that in an edited OP as it's definitely important info.
24 is the exact median age for the onset of schizophrenia
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concentration/name/source of thc gummies? Any other previous pathologies, particularly neurological & endocrine related? Any previous medications? Use of other recreational drugs? Any known allergies or adverse drug reactions? What were the results of blood panel? Any brain/ glandular scans?
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@brotherwentcrazy some of my darkest moments have been from cyproheptadine due to releasing stored serotonin apparently, would be very careful with it
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@yeehawyinzer was following Ashwagandha usage so if he was on any form of SSRIs in the past, could also be a factor,
not sure how THC is in play with all of these but would likely play a part
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@brotherwentcrazy said in Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating":
THC gummies,
Yeah...
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@yeehawyinzer also, cyproheptadine and metergoline activate the same serotonin receptor
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@izkrov Thank you for the reply. His diet definitely was erratic and probably not peaty. For years he lived off of mostly cereal and frozen pizza. I don't think he changed too much recently...
Do you think that if he stops taking these for a bit, the episodes may stop?@skylark Unfortunately I am not sure; my guess is they were pretty potent.
He actually had had a couple concussions, and some febrile seizures when very very young, though those have stopped.
In the past, he went on one steroid cycle I believe. This was about 3 years ago.
I believe he was on SSRIs and adderall for a time; I will need to double-check to confirm. He has gone long stretches without medications of any kind but has used them in the past.
No allergies I believe. He had previously used both PCP (I think only once) and benzos (many times) and had had a couple episodes on them, though both of those ended quickly, and he acted more like a blackout drunk during them rather than someone hallucinating. I don't believe he's ever done any psychedelics.
I'll need to check the blood panel, I haven't looked at it directly, but my parents told me there wasn't anything particularly noteworthy IIRC.
He's never had a brain/glandular scan AFAIK@yeehawyinzer thank you for the comments, it makes sense these definitely could've impacted him in that way then
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Really sorry to hear this has happened to your brother. As has already been said, it was most likely the combo of THC, cyproheptadine and metergoline that affected his mental state, the rest I can't see how they could cause something like this but that's the problem with witch's brew supplementation, with him having taken so much its hard to say much more.
Of course there's also the chance that he is taking something other than these, given his history as you explained. Would mean they are very well hidden or stashed with a friend but might be worth considering. -
Someone on RPF claimed to have seen similar cases with Idealabs products. Who knows if it's a legitimate concern or a targeted attack (including you).
"Been seeing quite a few people dealing with various mental and other health issues posting here and around online.
Some are mixing various Idealabs products which do have interactions. Or adding them on top of using other medicines.
Dealing with things like hallucinations, ocd, depression etc.
People think everything is cool and fine without doing any research on how the products works."
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/haidut-aka-georgi-has-been-banned-edit-ban-has-been-lifted.52448/page-2#post-979950 -
Do you know what condition the SSRIs were prescribed for? Any OCD tendencies? What did the Docs think?
Obviously thc, metergoline & cyproheptadine have strong neurological effects and can be abused. SSRIs can leave long-lasting effects and are known for unpredictable interactions with other drugs that modulate serotonin function.
Additionally, if the diet is not sufficient, increasing metabolic rate, especially through the use of drugs, can lead to deficiencies of regulatory nutrients such as magnesium & vitamin D, leading to sudden disturbance in glucose metabolism and effecting energy systems in the brain.
Supplementing milk, fruit & vitamin D usually has a stabilising effect.
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@brotherwentcrazy I think it could've been the combination of THC and metergolin. Might have stimulated the brain too much with no stopping (prolactin).I remember back in the day on looksmaxxing forums they'd recommend cabergolin to lower inhibitions, trying to become more dopaminergic so they could take more risks. Doubt that would be a good combination with THC and god knows how much THC and cabergolin he used. Might sound "anti-peaty" but THC can have a strong effect on both dopamine and I'm sure serotonin as well. That's probably why you see people who are slowly starting to become schizophrenic on drugs placing such a large value on meaningless and incoherent topics/places/things, etc.
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@TheSir Mixing Idealabs research chemicals and recreational drugs, what could go wrong?
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Classic serotonin syndrome. Can be caused by drug-interactions between anti-histamines and any number of the things he's been taking.
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@NangaParbat How are you so sure it was serotonin syndrome and not psychosis, schizophrenia being triggered by the THC and research chemicals that alter neurochemicals in the brain?
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@Sugar I mean that serotonin syndrome was the cause of the psychosis. Anti-histamines can cause hallucinations in themselves in large doses. The symptoms of psychosis are closely tied to serotonin. But as you may know cyproheptadine is a standard treatment for ss, but in the case where the ss follows from an overdose of anti-histamines, this must of course not be the line of treatment. Nicotine is another problematic compound in this context, which is best avoided.
Good luck!
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@brotherwentcrazy I would recommend stopping all supplements yeah, but I don't think just stopping them will be enough to get him out of it. Once you get this kind of nervous stress reaction in you, that's how you'll be responding from now on unless you change it, it's just the imprint he has in him.
If I were in his shoes I would drink 2Ls of 1% milk a day (it lowers PTH), take vitamin D and take progest-e (instead of progestene, it genuinely makes all the difference). Orally is fine but if you applied progest-e topically onto the veins of his arms, it should bring relief.
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@brotherwentcrazy I'm so sorry for your brother's dire state and I hope he recovers quickly. I lost my brother to schizophrenia 15 years ago. He was 56. He had mercury amalgam fillings placed when he was a child. I did too. Mercury toxicity sets a person up to be thiamine deficient. It also causes selenium deficiency.
Safe removal of the amalgam fillings is paramount.Another thing that can exacerbate thiamine deficiency is polyunsaturated fats; another thing is the popular empty calorie western civilization diet, especially consuming fast food that is cooked with polyunsaturated fats.
Some thoughts:
It seems that many people that decide to jump into "Peaty" things and rely on second hand information rather than reading Ray Peat's articles can get into trouble. If your brother was consuming higher amounts of sugar and high sugar foods (like starch, fruit juices, etc.) and drinking coffee too, he could have exacerbated a latent thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency can cause psychotic breaks by causing oxygen/cellular energy deficiency in the brain. If the doctors consider the possibility of thiamine deficiency contributing to your brother's problem, they could give him thiamine hcl by injection, which is the common way physicians administer it. An injection would have positive results quickly and would shed some light on what the problem is.I've seen that other posters are suggesting the problem could be from serotonin overload; I'd like to add that thiamine is required to clear serotonin from the brain.
Suggested reading:
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/serotonin-syndrome-thiamine-connection/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201204/nutritional-brain-bomb-thiamine-deficiency
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/jbcpp-2018-0075/html?lang=en
