Stopped absorbing thyroxine....
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@LucH nutrients? Nothing changed i eat nutrient-dense foods as always.
first thing I thought its because magnesium sulphate gut flushes I was doing daily for constipations, stopped and nothing changed.
Then tried not expired thyroxine and nothing changed.
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@FitnessMikey said in Stopped absorbing thyroxine....:
Nothing changed i eat nutrient-dense foods as always.
--= I Se Mg are used up. Deiodinases are'nt efficient.
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Just taking T4 can have no effect as you need the liver to convert it to T3 (the active hormone). Eating more protein can help the liver to do its job.
You can try taking T3 and see if it has a metabolism boosting effect. A 1:3 ratio of T3:T4 is better than taking plain T4 or T3 since it prolongs the otherwise short lived effect of just T3.T4 can have a brain suppressive effect so do not increase the dosage too rapidly
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@PissBoy thanks.
The thing is that i need t4 as it alleviates symptoms for the most part, but its not going up in my serum after last test despite taking 50mcg and now 100mcg, nothing much change. i take some portk thyroid to raise my ft3.
No idea why it stopped raising my total t4 lvls for some months.
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@FitnessMikey Estrogen inhibits livers conversion of T4 to T3.
Just taking T4 can tank TSH, turning off your thyroid production. That combined with an ineffective T3 conversion can lead to worsened hypothyroidism and in severe cases an actual comatose state. 100mcg is quite a dose.When the liver is the main cause of hypothyroidism, your temperature (and especially the temperature of your nose, hands and feet) will fall when hungry, and will rise when you eat carbohydrates. If a hypothyroid person has a very slow pulse, and feels lethargic, it seems that there is little adrenalin; in this case, a feeding of carbohydrate is likely to increase both the pulse rate and the temperature, as the liver is permitted to form the active T3 hormone. - link
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@PissBoy conversion is one thing, but t4 stopped raising my total t4 in the blood. Which wasn't problem before.
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@FitnessMikey have you done a comprehensive thyroid panel?
Do you know your rT3 levels? -
@PissBoy I do it occasionally, and it seems to be elevated. However, it still doesn't explain why my total T4 won't raise from thyroxine; as I said before, I had no problem with that.
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@FitnessMikey I read your thread in the old forum. Your experiences are very similar to mine, with using thyroid.
Be mindful that it takes a much longer time to notice effects from T4, days, most often weeks.How much T3 are you taking? I believe you need to lower your T3.
T3 tanks TSH much more abruptly than T3 actually. That’s why Peaters who take a high ratio of T3:T4 often have low freeT4 in the blood. The T3 suppresses the TSH >> endogenous production of T4 halts and the amounts they’re supplement ming exogenously are too low.For high absorption, you need to take T4 on empty stomach 4 hours away from food.
From my experience, high dose T4 feels good for a while, a few months, until it doesn’t. I’m at that point.
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@FitnessMikey said in Stopped absorbing thyroxine....:
conversion is one thing, but t4 stopped raising my total t4 in the blood. Which wasn't problem before.
I'll repeat it in another way.
Why a lack of functional deiodinase enzyme interferes with metabolism.
I often hear: “After experiencing significant success with a synthetic thyroid hormone supplement, I'm feeling out of sorts.” Why? => I don’t understand… I haven't changed anything in my habits or my diet that could justify this discomfort!
Attempt at explanation
Deiodinases control local cellular and systemic thyroid hormone availability. The deiodinase enzymes are involved in activation and inactivation of thyroid hormones, thus modulating the availability when needed, in order to fine-tune the functions of the carburetor. (5-7)
Deiodinases allow tissues to customize either enhancing or decreasing the intracellular concentration of thyroid hormone at the single-cell level and independently of plasma.
5) Deiodinases control local cellular and systemic thyroid hormone availability
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.freeradbiomed.2022.09.024
Thyroid and deiodinase function depends on supply of the trace elements iodine, selenium and iron.Additional info:
Taking T3 and T4 synthetic supplement improves metabolism for a while
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2108-english-corner-taking-t3-and-t4-synthetic-supplement-improves-metabolism-for-a-while#30193
Expressed differently:
If there is not an adequate supply of nutrients to optimize the functioning of the deiodinase enzymes DIO 1 DIO 2 and especially DIO 3, the improvement will be very often temporary / provisional.
Required nutrients (1) for immediate optimal function of the thyroid: I, Mg, Se, Zn and tyrosine.
*) Selenium is used up when there is HM toxicity or excess ROS.
Iodine is used up when there are allergy, immune problems, infection ...
Deficiency in selenium and iodine can negatively impact thyroid hormone metabolism, even when thyroid hormone supplementation is used. -
@GreekDemiGod naa borther, i should feed some improvement right away from 100mcg t4, I know historically. Its very strange that it stopped raising my hormones in my serum. maybe long term usage of gut flushing stuff did something to my small intestine and thus stopped absorbing t4. I want to try liquid t4 but cant find anything shipping to poland/uk.
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Since I never stopped eating the right foods, the only thing that comes to my mind is that it has something to do with gut health and not being absorbed in the small intestine.
It would be fantastic if someone went through something like this too and shared their experience.
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@FitnessMikey said in Stopped absorbing thyroxine....:
Since I never stopped eating the right foods,
Specify the exact amount of magnesium intake, and especially iodine and selenium.
Then, you deduct the amount "burned" by stress, carburetion and oxidation, not to mention inflammation or a virus that's been around recently.
Of course, with that, and a balanced dietary intake, but deficient in Se and Mg, like 80% of the population, you're on target/on the right track.
So, you won't lack what deiodinases need, as mentioned previously. You remember why, of course.
(irony, sorry; I couldn't help myself). -
@LucH sorry, i think im failing to understand that deiodinases enzymes are required somehow I'm simply absorption of exogenous enzymes. I did multiple test over the years for selenium and magnesium and they were good, not so much about the zinc though. Did you have similar problem to mine?
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The trace elements in your analysis are good. If you're taking a supplement with manganese in it, there's a problem: No Mn or Fe in the multivitamins (Fenton reaction).
Your phosphorus level is borderline high, but I guess it's not like this every day.
Ca/P 2.2/1
Maximum double for P if it's occasional.
If calcium comes from food, OK. Otherwise no need to be so high. Need to eat 1 slice Gouda cheese for K2 (interaction between Ca P K2 D3 Retinol and vitamin E + beta-carotene). However, it's still going to make P level higher. No need to eat more 2 x 80-120 g meat /d. (3-4.5 oz.) to limit the source of P. -
@FitnessMikey It’s weird. After a couple weeks of trying to lower my dose and feeling worse. Today I took 100mcg T4 + 20 mcg T3 in the morning, 1hrs before eating . I definitely felt the metabolism boosting effect today.
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Have you tried taking less?
Sounds weird but it's something Roddy talked about. Taking small (1/8 of a tablet) doses, but I dont recall if it was about pure T3, might work with T4 too. -
anyone know whats up with thyroxine absorbtion? still can barely raise it, something with the gut?
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@FitnessMikey said in Stopped absorbing thyroxine....:
anyone know whats up with thyroxine absorbtion? still can barely raise it, something with the gut?
Here is an different approach... Not based on a higher level absorption but on balance since it can improve the conversion of the reserve hormone to the active one.
Please, don't reject the whole thing when one part is thought to be inadequate or even "stupid".
Context 1
A forumer (FM) on bioenergetics.com is trying to get thyroxine higher because when he took some T4 (first 50 mcg, afterwards 100mcg T4) it has alleviated symptoms for the most part (usual hypo symptoms, like a lack of energy, constipation). He also took some pork thyroid to raise his ft3, he said.
He thinks something impedes the conversion and is trying to find out how to deal with.Context 2
FM comments:
"I do everything right, empty stomach, hour away from food, it was working and just stopped.
Stopped gluten now for few days but doesn't seem anything is happening yet."
When doing a thyroid panel, he found rt3 was elevated.
He was advised to improve balance between T3 and T4.
He doesn’t catch that when he decided to get T4 higher, the correlation between global improvement and continuous high level T4 doesn’t last.
I advised him to pay attention to useful nutrients for deiodinase enzymes:
“Deiodinases allow tissues to customize either enhancing or decreasing the intracellular concentration of thyroid hormone at the single-cell level and independently of plasma”.
I drew his attention to the fact that we need an adequate amount of cofactors as Zn, I, Mg I. Thyroid and deiodinase function depends on supply of some trace elements.
Taking T3 and T4 synthetic supplement improves metabolism only for a while if Dio3 isn’t performant. Dio3 is responsible for converting T4 to the inactive reverse T3 (rT3), and also for inactivating T3, meaning it can hinder the desired metabolic effects of thyroid hormone replacement.For other readers (remind) :
T4 and T3 in Hypothyroidism:
T4 is a prohormone that is converted to the active hormone T3 in the body.
Importance of Deiodinases:
Deiodinases are enzymes that play a crucial role in regulating thyroid hormone levels. Deiodinase 1 (Dio1) and Dio2 convert T4 to T3, while Dio3 inactivates both T4 (by converting it to rT3) and T3.
Dio3's Role:
Dio3 is particularly important because it can significantly reduce the amount of active T3 available for metabolic processes. If Dio3 is overactive or malfunctioning, it can lead to lower than optimal levels of T3, even with thyroid hormone replacement therapy.
=> So Dio3 is also useful to balance / correct an excess T4 when supplementing.
Impact on Metabolism:
If Dio3 is not performing its function properly, it can limit the beneficial effects of T3 supplementation on metabolism, as it may convert the administered T3 into inactive metabolites.*) Excess T4 supplement and lack of Dio3
How to improve deiodinase enzymes to correct an excess t4 supplement
This can be achieved through dietary adjustments, targeted supplementation, and lifestyle modifications.- Se- and Zn-rich foods
- Ensure adequate intake of vitamin A, vitamin E, and iodine, all of which play a role in thyroid function.
- Avoidance of hidden deficiencies by blood test.
- Iodine: Consider the fact that iodine is needed by other organs but has been stolen by thyroid.
- Selenium: Consider the fact that deiodinase enzymes are seleno-proteins., depending on a right amount. RDA 50 mcg is not sufficient when there is a lack of other anti-oxidants (inflammation, illness, heavy metal intox). After reloading, mind excess. Too much of a good thing is bad.
- Manganese: if you don’t eat nuts (30 g / 1 oz.) 2x/wk.
- Consider medication adjustments: some medications can interfere with thyroid function.
NB: When Reverse T3 dominance lasts: Pay attention to reverse T3 levels, as increased reverse T3 can indicate impaired conversion and may require specific management strategies (professional follow-up).
Useful info: Trace elements and the thyroid
doi: 10.3389/fendo.2022.904889 Front Endocrinol.
Excerpt:
Trace elements, such as iodine and selenium (Se), are vital to human health and play an essential role in metabolism. They are also important to thyroid metabolism and function, and correlate with thyroid autoimmunity and tumors. Other minerals such as iron (Ir), lithium (Li), copper (Co), zinc (Zn), manganese (Mn), magnesium (Mg), cadmium (Cd), and molybdenum (Mo), may related to thyroid function and disease. Normal thyroid function depends on a variety of trace elements for thyroid hormone synthesis and metabolism. These trace elements interact with each other and are in a dynamic balance.Question to ChatGPT:
How could I make the forum user aware that there are several possibilities for enzyme deficiencies, focusing on the conversion of T3 and T4, and avoiding excessive T4 supplementation?
Note: Don't offer a complete range of nutritional and behavioral advice, but rather rely on one or two probabilities. Don't try to be thorough. Focus the research on raising awareness of the problem, with clues based on what I’ve mentioned. Thanks.ChatGPT answers
To raise FitnessMikey’s awareness—without overwhelming him—your best approach is to gently reframe the problem he's trying to solve.
He seems focused on boosting T4 levels because he feels better temporarily, but he hasn’t grasped that high T4 is not sustainable if conversion pathways are compromised—particularly if Dio3 is dysregulated and/or cofactors are missing.
Here’s a concise, respectful way you could intervene on the forum:
“Mikey, it sounds like you’re doing all the right things to optimize T4 intake—but since your symptoms improved and then regressed, and your rT3 is elevated, it might be worth stepping back to look at why conversion to T3 isn’t holding.
You may already know this, but just in case: T4 is just the raw material. The real action happens when it’s converted to T3—unless too much of it is shunted into rT3. That often signals a bottleneck at the enzyme level (Dio1/Dio2), or overactivity of Dio3.
Sometimes it’s not about adding more T4, but about whether your system has what it needs to use it well. Even subtle shortages in selenium or zinc—both needed for deiodinase enzymes—can throw this off.
Just a thought: instead of upping T4 again, maybe test or experiment to see if those cofactor pathways are part of what’s blocking the long-term benefit.”**
This message:
• Validates his experience without disputing his logic.
• Plants a seed that more T4 isn’t always the answer.
• Points to one or two trace minerals (Se, Zn) without overloading.
• Encourages him to redirect his energy to a more productive investigation (enzyme support rather than more hormone).
Let me know if you’d like to adjust the tone—more technical or more casual.
LucH says:
Bye. I'll see later.PS: Thyroid needs minimum 10 days to adjust the levels.
