Serotonin question
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I know the mainstream view on serotonin is basically the reverse of the truth, which means most of the focus in this community is on lowering it and not doing things that make it worse.
However… is it possible to have too low serotonin, and what would that look like?
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@schemingfonzie
I noticed that low serotonin makes me feel cold, but if I eat turkey or chicken I feel hot, my veins in my arms and legs expand and my limbs start to burn from the heat.
I know that people on this forum will say: well, drink coffee with sugar, milk and coconut oil, drink orange juice, you have low thyroid...
but these tips not only don't help, they make things even worse...
it makes me feel even colderI'm writing through Google Translate
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@alex155 said in Serotonin question:
it makes me feel even colder
I'd try to eat some meat(with fat) at breakfast and see how I react.
=> 2 fruits (e.g. one banana and grape) + 2 eggs and one slice young gouda cheese (or 50 g ham).
Vary and chose according to desiderata and ability to digest / feel good. -
@LucH I tried to eat beef steak, but it doesn't help, and eggs give me a terrible smell of hydrogen sulfide in my mouth and stool, I need to try banana and grapes, I eat cheese every day.
also cottage cheese with sour cream and jam helps to warm up (tryptophan?)
in any case, thank you for helping LucH, I really appreciate it) -
@alex155 I would be cautious attributing something like that to low serotonin, it could be many other things.
@OP You can take a look at studies with fenclonine or other similar drugs that are known without doubt to nuke serotonin levels. It can cause aggression, irritability, hypersexuality, hyperphagia, possible anxiety/OCD even though it ACTH/cortisol are lowered. Intuitively: behaviors that are seen when our "brake mechanism" of serotonin is completely compromised and we are uninhibited.
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@schemingfonzie said in Serotonin question:
… is it possible to have too low serotonin…?
Short answer:
Theoretically yes but practically no. -
@Yenn For example?
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@schemingfonzie balance is the goal. It's obviously serving a purpose, just like fat, but too much or dysfunctional mechanisms reveal underlying problems. I know this sounds like sophistry but I think it's complex.
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@schemingfonzie Good question. I'm not qualified to answer so here's the answer from Delphi Ray Peat AI:
If serotonin levels are very low, it’s important to consider the context and the mechanisms involved. Serotonin, while often portrayed as a purely "feel-good" neurotransmitter, is actually a mediator of stress and inflammation. Its effects are highly context-dependent, and its role in the body is complex. Low serotonin levels can have both positive and negative implications, depending on the underlying metabolic and hormonal state.
On the positive side, lower serotonin levels can reduce some of the inhibitory effects it has on energy metabolism. Serotonin suppresses mitochondrial respiration, interferes with glucose metabolism, and promotes vasoconstriction, which can impair oxygen delivery to tissues. By reducing serotonin, these inhibitory effects are lessened, potentially improving energy production and metabolic efficiency. For example, in conditions like hypothyroidism or chronic fatigue, where serotonin activity is often elevated, lowering serotonin can alleviate symptoms and improve overall function [1][5][6].
However, very low serotonin levels can also have consequences, particularly if the body’s energy systems and stress responses are not well-supported. Serotonin plays a role in regulating vascular tone, gastrointestinal motility, and platelet function. If serotonin drops too low without adequate compensatory mechanisms, issues like poor gut motility, impaired blood clotting, or dysregulated vascular function could arise. Additionally, serotonin has a role in modulating the stress response, and its absence could lead to an overactive stress system if other protective factors, like progesterone or thyroid hormone, are insufficient [2][6].
The key is balance. Serotonin should not dominate the system, but it also shouldn’t be entirely absent. Supporting the body’s energy metabolism—through adequate thyroid function, sufficient dietary protein, and avoidance of inflammatory substances like polyunsaturated fats—helps regulate serotonin naturally, keeping it in a range that supports health without tipping into excess or deficiency. If you suspect serotonin is very low, it’s worth considering whether the underlying metabolic and hormonal environment is robust enough to maintain balance in its absence. Let me know if you’d like to explore this further.
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Serotonin is a hibernation hormone. it causes you to be passive and waste less energy. dopamine is the complete opposite
@alex155 if metabolism increasing substances make you feel cold you are running on stress hormones (which drop whenever you increase your metabolism). and the probable explanation for why you feel warm after eating chicken is that your body spikes your insulin, causing you to produce more stress hormones to compensate, and then you feel good again.
@schemingfonzie
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/the-dark-side-of-serotonin-exposed-by-haidut-in-70-studies.26016/ -
@lobotomize-me can you provide links to scientific articles on this? because it seems like reinventing the wheel...
do you want me to explain how I see it, without even referring to scientific articles? everyone knows that serotonin syndrome causes hyperthermia...
I mean that serotonin is responsible for maintaining the body's heat. well, these receptors would not exist in the body if we did not need serotonin.
accordingly, with low serotonin levels it can be cold, that's why when I eat foods containing tryptophan I get warm. It's simple, isn't it? -
@lobotomize-me
the dude has depleted all his serotonin, even T3 doesn't help him... Peatness at the end of the thread also kind of hints
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/cold.42904/ -
@alex155 Serotonin syndrome causes hyperthermia primarily through excessive muscle activity and rigidity, rather than through a change in the body's temperature set point.
As I said before foods with tytrophan are usually highly insulin stimulating causing a even greater need for the stress hormones you are living off of.
Serotonin-hibernation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3766776/
First link that came up when searching shows that researchers destroy seratonin receptors in a specific part of the brain hibernation is prevented -
@alex155 the guy you mentioned having seratonin depleted( which is not possible as it is a neurotransmitter the body/stomach bacteria can produce) had never mentioned anything about seratonin
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@lobotomize-me said in Serotonin question:
@alex155( which is not possible as it is a neurotransmitter the body/stomach bacteria can produce)
but isn't it possible to disrupt platelet function with things like aspirin, coffee, vit E, etc., which I've been doing for years, thereby disrupting serotonin transmission?
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@lobotomize-me said in Serotonin question:
@alex155 the guy you mentioned having seratonin depleted had never mentioned anything about seratonin
I'm just guessing
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@lobotomize-me said in Serotonin question:
As I said before foods with tytrophan are usually highly insulin stimulating causing a even greater need for the stress hormones you are living off of.
I feel stress hormones being released when I drink a cup of coffee (I feel cold and nervous) but products with tryptophan make me feel warm and calm, it's the exact opposite effect, so the first thing that came to my mind was serotonin
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for those who are afraid of tryptophan and serotonin, this study about B. subtilis will be interesting, what bacteria should be avoided, but I assure you that you won't even be able to take a shit without serotonin... and for now I will continue to experiment on myself
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10527075/
Mice treated with B. subtilis R0179 exhibited greater colonic tissue levels of Trp and the 5-HT breakdown product, 5-HIAA compared to vehicle-treated mice. Furthermore, B. subtilis treatment accelerated colonic motility in both healthy mice as well as in a mouse model of constipation. These effects were not observed with heat-inactivated R0179 or the live 1A2 strain that does not express tryptophan synthase. Lastly, we found that the prokinetic effects of B. subtilis R0179 were blocked by co-administration of a 5-HT4 receptor (5-HT4R) antagonist and were absent in 5-HT4R knockout mice.
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this is interesting:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18322094/
Serotonergic neurons project widely throughout the CNS and modulate many different brain functions. Particularly important, but controversial, are the contributions of serotonin (5-HT) neurons to respiratory and thermoregulatory control. To better define the roles of 5-HT neurons in breathing and thermoregulation, we took advantage of a unique conditional knock-out mouse in which Lmx1b is genetically deleted in Pet1-expressing cells (Lmx1b(f/f/p)), resulting in near-complete absence of central 5-HT neurons. Here, we show that the hypercapnic ventilatory response in adult Lmx1b(f/f/p) mice was decreased by 50% compared with wild-type mice, whereas baseline ventilation and the hypoxic ventilatory response were normal. In addition, Lmx1b(f/f/p) mice rapidly became hypothermic when exposed to an ambient temperature of 4 degrees C, decreasing core temperature to 30 degrees C within 120 min. This failure of thermoregulation was caused by impaired shivering and nonshivering thermogenesis, whereas thermosensory perception and heat conservation were normal. Finally, intracerebroventricular infusion of 5-HT stimulated baseline ventilation, and rescued the blunted hypercapnic ventilatory response. These data identify a previously unrecognized role of 5-HT neurons in the CO(2) chemoreflex, whereby they enhance the response of the rest of the respiratory network to CO(2). We conclude that the proper function of the 5-HT system is particularly important under conditions of environmental stress and contributes significantly to the hypercapnic ventilatory response and thermoregulatory cold defense.
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@alex155 maybe your glycogen stores are full but your body prefers liposyis for some reason and when you take coffee you still have a drop of stress hormones as your body starts to burn glucose as fuel. ( ray mentions many times that coffee acts as a thyroid mimetic)
theory 2 : you may be thiamine deficient and coffee and metabolism increasers make things worse as you thiamine gets depleted even more
theory 3 : you are high on acetylcholine
