GABA powder
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thoughts???
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@sunsunsun said in GABA powder:
thoughts???
Gaba powder? Rather L-theanine or glycine; not right?
I'll give it a shot since no one has answered yet
Many sources suggest that these supplements are often complementary and can even be taken together for enhanced effects.
The main limitation of GABA powder is its poor ability to cross the blood-brain barrier. On the other side, you could have side effects like drowsiness and a difficulty to dose the right amount, variable according to mood and perception by the brain (fluctuation), with a temporary drop in blood pressure possible if you do not well anticipate (subjective feeling) and always take the same dosage.
L-theanine
L-theanine is an amino acid found in green and black tea that promotes relaxation without causing drowsiness. It is known to promote the release of other neurotransmitters, including GABA and glycine, in the brain.
It easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and generally has a better safety profile and fewer reported side effects compared to GABA.
L-theanine is generally considered a more effective individual supplement for relaxation and sleep improvement due to its superior bioavailability.
Glycine
Glycine is another inhibitory neurotransmitter that helps calm the brain and can improve sleep quality.
It is often used as a sleep aid and is generally well-regarded for its effectiveness in promoting restful sleep and enhancing cognitive function. Magnesium is often found in the glycinate form (magnesium glycinate) which is also calming. I use the last one. Both, in fact. When I feel inner tension in the stomach, I take L-theanine (225 mg, Organika) and magnesium bisglycinate 1.5 g x 2.
Begin slowly to reach 10 g pure glycine, if you choose the pure form. 20% assimilation, according to Haidut (study)
Conclusion
L-theanine is generally seen as a more reliable choice than GABA powder alone because it is proven to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively. Glycine is another effective additional option for sleep and relaxation, working through a similar inhibitory mechanism. It’s better to choose a synergistic effect: it works better together than either supplement alone, especially for improving sleep quality and duration.
And of course, you don’t anticipate with magnesium. No effect if you feel fine, except you should target Mg between 300 – 420 mg.
I’d add one more advice: Move and walk 20’ outside, with a slow stomach breath. I’d get inform on EFT or sophrology. EFT is fine. I can give a link to explain why and how. You can't reach an appropriate balance only with chemistry. See it as an adjuvant, a crutch to move forward more easily and progress with fine staples. And we don't question everything if we relapse. This will happen. We adjust, we adapt according to how we feel… Stay steady and positive and it will do the job. I hope so. -
@sunsunsun It's okay, it can make you feel really fuzzy though.
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@LucH the lack of obvious BBB crossing apparently doesn't negate GABA effects , the basic reason I say that is that gut bacteria producing GABA have been measured to have distinct effect on whole organism
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@sunsunsun I think the trademarked pharmaGABA at least has some evidence behind it that shows it can exert parasympathetic action, possibly via the vagus nerve.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30263304/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16971751/
https://www.tesble.com/10.1002/biof.5520260305The latter study found that 100 mg PharmaGABA produced better results than l-theanine (200mg) as regards alpha brain waves and beta brain waves, though both interventions produced favorable changes.
GABA also prevented the decrease in Immunoglobulin A levels (a marker of immune suppression) when subjects were exposed to a stressor (walking a pedestrian bridge when they were afraid of heights) compared to placebo.
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@jamezb46 apparently the pharmagaba is a psyop and normal synthetic gaba has the same effect. pharmagaba is produced by microbial fermentation which shouldn't change how the actual end-product works. a gaba researcher actually called them out on it in a submission to a journal or whatever. microbial fermentation to produce pharmaceuticals/supps is actually neat and i have nothing against it.
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@sunsunsun Perhaps, but it's possible that the GABA not produced by fermentation has unnatural ratios of the various conformations that GABA can exist in.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 said in GABA powder:
Perhaps, but it's possible that the GABA not produced by fermentation has unnatural ratios of the various conformations that GABA can exist in.
I'd would express it on another way.
Gut bacteria known to metabolize or grow on GABA
A number of gut microbes possess the GABA shunt (gad/gab genes), allowing them to use GABA for growth, energy production, or acid resistance.Improve transit (MMC) to avoid most of the problems due to excess. No GABA supplement if suspicion of candidiasis.
@sunsunsun
I've just finished writing an article on why GABA powder is useful for the microbiota. Not yet posted. Need coffee
Thanks for contributing: I didn't know (...). -
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I would strongly advise against relying on Chat GPT to get your knowledge. It is frankly abysmal at chemistry. I have asked it specific questions that it gets completely wrong, referring in its answer to completely different molecules.
Here are some excerpts from the paper that my claim came from:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0166128088800848?via%3Dihub
"It is believed that the conformational behaviour of GABA and GABA inhibitors is a critical factor for their selective biological property. Experimental analysis on GABA, viz., X-ray crystallography [6-8], IR [9,10] and 1H-NMR spectroscopy [ 11 ], suggest that this amino acid exists mainly as a zwitterion in solid and gaseous state or in solution. Theoretical conformational analysis [12-16] of the isolated molecule predicted the lower energies for the folded conformer with a rotational barrier greater than 40 kcal mol- 1 for the extended conformer.
"Theoretical calculations involving solvent effects [ 13,15,17 ] have
shown that this rotational barrier is largely reduced in solution. Dipole moment measurements [18,19] favour the fully extended form whereas crystallographic evidence [6-8] supports a conformer which is not fully extended.""Results of ~H-NMR measurements [11], on the other hand, predicted the existence of at least five extended and folded conformers in solution. The biological importance of the GABA conformation (i.e., the biologically active conformer) has been stressed by studies on the stereospecificity of GABA analogues [20-24]. For example, muscimol [25], a potent GABA agonist with respect to neuronal receptors, corresponds to a partially extended form of GABA
[24]. On the other hand, a wider range of conformers have been proposed to be the active forms at the perisynaptic uptake system [20,22,24 ]"So, at least according to this paper, the particular effects that a particular GABA analogue has can be explained by whether the analogue resembles the extended or the folded conformation of GABA.
That implies that endogenously, there is a meaningful difference between the folded vs the extended form of GABA (if the authors are correct the folded vs extended forms have different affinities at GABA-A vs GABA-B receptors).
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@jamezb46 said in GABA powder:
Here are some excerpts from the paper that my claim came from:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0166128088800848?via%3Dihub
"It is believed that the conformational behaviour of GABA and GABA inhibitors is a critical factor for their selective biological property. Experimental analysis on GABA, viz., X-ray crystallography [6-8], IR [9,10] and 1H-NMR spectroscopy [ 11 ], suggest that this amino acid exists mainly as a zwitterion in solid and gaseous state or in solution. Theoretical conformational analysis [12-16] of the isolated molecule predicted the lower energies for the folded conformer with a rotational barrier greater than 40 kcal mol- 1 for the extended conformer.
"Theoretical calculations involving solvent effects [ 13,15,17 ] have
shown that this rotational barrier is largely reduced in solution. Dipole moment measurements [18,19] favour the fully extended form whereas crystallographic evidence [6-8] supports a conformer which is not fully extended.""Results of ~H-NMR measurements [11], on the other hand, predicted the existence of at least five extended and folded conformers in solution. The biological importance of the GABA conformation (i.e., the biologically active conformer) has been stressed by studies on the stereospecificity of GABA analogues [20-24]. For example, muscimol [25], a potent GABA agonist with respect to neuronal receptors, corresponds to a partially extended form of GABA
[24]. On the other hand, a wider range of conformers have been proposed to be the active forms at the perisynaptic uptake system [20,22,24 ]"So, at least according to this paper, the particular effects that a particular GABA analogue has can be explained by whether the analogue resembles the extended or the folded conformation of GABA.
That implies that endogenously, there is a meaningful difference between the folded vs the extended form of GABA (if the authors are correct the folded vs extended forms have different affinities at GABA-A vs GABA-B receptors).
interdasting...
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@sunsunsun The paper could absolutely be wrong, or I could be misinterpreting it, but that was my impression, anyway.
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@sunsunsun said in GABA powder:
the lack of obvious BBB crossing apparently doesn't negate GABA effects , the basic reason I say that is that gut bacteria producing GABA have been measured to have distinct effect on whole organism
How is GABA powder useful for microbiota?
GABA → succinate → butyrate pathway: The Microbial Power Route.
How gut bacteria convert GABA through the shunt and succinate pathway to fuel and protect colonocytes of the linen walls.Many Bacteroides can use GABA as a carbon and nitrogen source for growth. Some other intestinal bacteria can use an alternative pathway, called the GABA shunt.
GABA is not a preferred primary carbon source for most gut bacteria as growth is usually stronger on sugars or amino acids like glutamate. But when the main fuel is rationed or when an access route is blocked, an alternate pathway is used. Survival, no longer growing and extending.
Butyrate is the star among SCFAs (with propionate) as it upregulates the tight junction proteins (occludin, claudin-1 and -4and ZO-1 (zonulin): Tight junction expression, anti-inflammatory signaling (via HDAC inhibition) and hypoxic barrier maintenance (via oxygen consumption in colonocytes). Butyrate literally energizes the gut barrier.
Even if butyrate is the primary fuel for colonocytes, allowing them to function optimally and maintain the physical barrier, you won’t have rich-butyrate food (butter) arrive at destination.
Food butyrate doesn’t substitute for microbially produced butyrate in the colon. You need help from the microbiota. Dietary butyrate has systemic anti-inflammatory benefits, may support mitochondrial function and is easy on digestion. But dietary butyrate won’t rebuild a damaged gut barrier the way endogenous microbial butyrate does.
Also, pamper your commensal bacteria with a varied supply of useful nutrients...
Butyrate is indirectly enhanced by resistant Starch (potato, rice, bread), Inulin (FOS from onions, garlic, asparagus, bananas, leeks), pectin (apple, citrus fruit, carrot), beta-glucan (oat, mushroom), GOS ((legumes, dairy), XOS (fruits, vegetables, whole grains) when the commensal bacteria feeds on these elements. + Yogurt & Kefir…
Note that the GABA shunt requires enzymatic reactions: GABA → Succinate = substrate for some bacteria that convert it into butyrate, a key SCFA. It serves as a signaling molecule that modulates immune and epithelial cell activity.
As you know probably, SCFAs—especially butyrate and propionate—upregulate junction proteins:
ï€ Occludin
ï€ Claudin-1 and -4
ï€ ZO-1 (zonulin)
Result:
✓ Reduced gut permeability
✓ Less endotoxin (LPS) crossing into the bloodstream
✓ Lower systemic inflammation
More info on this link:
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2153-english-corner-how-is-gaba-powder-useful-for-microbiota#30480 -
@LucH said in GABA powder:
microbiota
Viral episodes since 2020 seem to have had a dramatic (and lingering) negative effect on the oral and digestive microbiome.
Although scientific studies seem to be largely contradictory, I would suggest that Lactic Acid producing bacteria have increased and GABA producing bacteria have decreased.
For me, this has resulted in apparent abdominal sensitivity to pain and swelling, and episodes of digestive motility blockage. 200-400mg/d GABA powder has a relaxing effect on the nerves and muscles involved in the tension/distension.
At the same time, I find that I have to limit Lactic Acid producing foods: fermented ingestibles: no Kimchi, Sauerkraut, Kefir, Buttermilk, Yogurt.
And no Lactobacillus Probiotics. -
@atlee said in GABA powder:
200-400mg/d GABA powder has a relaxing effect on the nerves and muscles involved in the tension/distension.
Yes, indeed but I won't take gaba powder, nor glycine when there is dysbiosis (overgrowth) or unbalance in the microbiota. Why?
let's take 2 strains; E. Coli and candida albicans. They can feed on derived molecules. Make a search with the gaba shunt if you want more details.
I've explained this pathway in details on my forum.
When suffering from overgrowth, the tactics isn't the same.
In summary: Weaken – kick and push out.
Coordinated and planned tactic, which results in a structured scheme:
ï€ Weaken (deprivation of resources but not complete abstinence)
ï€ Organize to knock out (limiting the ability to adapt)
ï€ Machin-gun (with increased die-off) + assistance to evacuate LPS endotoxins
ï€ Consolidation (nutrients useful to ensure diversification of commensal bacteria + enhancing peaceful communication through the vagal nerve between the brain and the stomach).
Occupy the place (diversified menus and possible contributions of specific strains depending on the terrain, e.g. if you suffer from allergies / histamine intolerance or not.In prevention, get informed on motility (MMC) if your transit is lazy.
Need 30 g fiber (progressive) from veggies and fruits, as a substrate.
To set things in order, before it's too late: Quercetin, iodine (with a protocol to open NIS symporters and avoid a Wolff-Chaikoff effect).
If in crisis, I'd proceed with essential oils. I did it last year with success, when my transit was rather lazy, with flatulencies and sulphur odors. Details are to be found in my log, on my forum (In French; translator needed). Under control. Have still to take care for histamine excess. I manage rather well, though this last point is not ideal.
