I have trouble sleeping
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@lykos
First, you aren’t going to solve the problem with an anti-histamine. Not the right time and the right molecule. I’ll make a comparison: If you suffer from IBS and have a thin mucin (linen) in stomach, you won’t tolerate curcumin nor aloe vera, though they are well-known to calm down and appropriate against inflammation.
You have to coordinate an approach:- Bowel transit and MMC OK.
- Choose food you can tolerate (for a limit-time). For instance soup.
- Calm down overreaction. How is another problem.
- Get inform on food with contain oxalates / phytates and histamine.
- Get inform on how to manage to get rid of excess
a) Oxalates with calcium / citrates (Mg or K citrates).
b) Excess histamine with Cu (0.5 mg), DAO enzymes (1 000 000 Unit).
NB: If you take a high level of Zn (<15 mg), you aren’t going to assimilate Cu on an efficient way. 30 mg Zn is acceptable when in cure. We can double the posology when suffering from a leaky gut, if you can tolerate them. So, OK for 30 mg Zn and 1 mg Cu. The ratio between Cu and Zn must remain at the level 1/10. One exception: in case of a bacterial attack, or a couple of days.
Problem of assimilation when there is Ca at the menu (carrier).
c) Drink green tea (EGCG) instead of coffee if you need a boost effect. 2-3 cups 150 ml/d, every 4-5 hours. If you drink it more often, you accustom the serotonin receptors. Lose of effects. It's a drug.
*) I won’t take a B50 (with cofactors) every day (cell growth). I take mine 2x/wk., with one caps choline & inositol, 250 mg each. They function similarly in metabolic pathways, especially fat metabolism and nerve health. They are key for brain function, cell signaling, liver support, and hormonal balance. It could be 3x/wk for the first 2 weeks.
*) I you often suffer from stress or low grade-inflammation, you’ll need more B6. 20-25 mg/a day (half-life 20 Hours). B6 PLP but in cure (3 weeks). Afterwards, you need to make abstinence staples to avoid a shutdown of the brain. Too much of a good thing is bad.
*) I you eat carbs 3x/d + a snack you’ll need more B1. I take the cheapest one, B1 HCl 100 mg. But we need more B2 when taking a HD B1.
1.2 mg (+ 500 mg B1 per 1000 K/cal) is required as a minimum. Most people lack B1.
I take B1 B2 B3 B6 100 mg each, and TMG 500 mg. 2 or 3X/wk.
See Overtone for B1 (brain). B1-2-3 + biotin is required for energy.
I get my B9 and B12 (methylated forms) from my B50 complex.
*) So, you won’t have problems with a gene defect (methylation).
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@LucH is 3x week enough for TMG, i might reduce the b complex to 4x a week, i understand the issue with oxalates but whats wrong with phytates? Would lentils be an issue long term?
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@lykos asked:
- is 3x week enough for TMGl
- i might reduce the b complex to 4x a week,
- i understand the issue with oxalates but whats wrong with phytates?
- Would lentils be an issue long term?
1)Probably yes. Except if you lack B3, sulfur and become very deficient in methyl group. Not the case.
2) Ok for 4x/wk. Every other day.
B1 should be taken as a RDA (1.2 mg) or above 92 mg. So, 100 mg B1 HCl is fine every day. Not a B50. Otherwise it stimulate cell growth (cancer).
NB: RDA + 0.5 mg per 1000 K/cal.
3) See beneath.
4) soaked lentils are acceptable but not too often. lentils and snow pea (mangetout) contains less anti-protease than other legumes.Useful info on phytates
"Anti-nutrient" aspect: Phytate can bind to minerals like iron, zinc, and calcium, reducing their absorption.
Hydrogen sulfide is the final product of sulfate-reducing bacteria metabolism. Its high concentration in the gut can affect adversely bowel environment and intestinal microbiota by toxicity and pH lowering.
So, an excess sulfur, combined with a low transit, is going to enhance an unbalance in microbiome. No problem if you don’t eat keto.
However, avoid finishing your meal with nuts, as phytic acid can complicate digestion: Phytates also interact with proteins, which can affect digestibility and digestion in some people because excess phytic acid leads to the inactivation of certain digestive enzymes, such as alpha-amylase, lipase, or proteinase. (18) Calcium absorption could also be reduced by 70% and magnesium by 50%, thus exacerbating malnutrition in some more vulnerable individuals… (19)If I have a 30g / oz. snack of nuts and seeds per day?
If your phytic acid intake reaches 2g per day because you regularly eat a portion of seeds or nuts at the end of a meal (to feel full), you'll need to ensure you're getting enough calcium from food at the menu, or you eat a raw fruit or vegetable with vitamin C (broccoli or an orange), (but no calcium from a supplement), or magnesium. Alternatively, you could drink 50 ml of lemon juice, diluted (citrates) to bind and form phytates in the stomach, which will then be eliminated in your stool.Note also that 2 mg of phytic acid inhibits iron absorption by 18%, 25 mg inhibits 64%, and 250 mg of phytic acid inhibits 82% of iron absorption. However, the addition of ascorbic acid significantly counteracted this inhibition. (6)
Useful info:
Phytic acid in nuts and seeds. How much is too much? It's the dose that makes the poison!
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1076-biodisponibilite-des-mineraux-en-presence-d-acide-phytique#10960
Phytates dans les noix par 100 gr, en gramme (Phytates in nuts per 100g, in grams, or 3.5 oz.)
Amandes 0.35 – 9.42 (almonds) (for shelled nuts, without the peel, 2/3 less phytate)
Noix de cajou 0.19 (cashews)
Noisettes 0.23 – 0.92 (hazelnuts)
Noix de Grenoble 0.76 (English walnuts)
Noix pécan 0.18 – 4.52 (pecan nuts)
Pin pignon 0.20 (pine nuts)
Noix Brésil 0.29 – 6.34 (Brazil nuts)
Noix macadamia 0.15 – 2.62 (macadamia nuts)
Pistaches 0.29 – 2.83 (pistachio)
Some additional values that are truly chilling:
Sésame (peeled) 5.36
Cacaopowder 1.7 à 1.8
NB: The figures vary considerably as they depend on the soil's mineral content (4)
*) Moderate these ones:
P3: almond peanut, walnuts.
H3: almond
Ox3: almond, brazil nut, pine.
S3: /
Walnut: H3 P3 Ox1
Brazil nut: P3 Ox3
Almond: H1 ox3 Sal2
Peanut: H2 P3 Ox1 Sal1
*) OK for these ones:
Pecan: Ox1
Macadamia: Sal1
Table with antinutrients in “nuts”:
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1959-impact-negatif-de-loxalate-sur-le-metabolisme-chaos-biochimique#28286
H = Histamine, P = Phytate, Ox = oxalate, Sal = Salicylate.
The dose makes the poison. Not a problem if you don’t eat 30 g / 1 oz. “nuts” at the end of a meal, to feel full / saturated. -
@LucH i dont eat nuts my only source of phytates are lentils once in a while, weirdly enough i can take b1 as a bcomolex, isolated b1 even at small dosages 100mg gives me issues, might be deficient in certain b vitamins.
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@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
might be deficient in certain b vitamins.
Nutrients to extract energy in the form of electrons in the transport chain
Energy metabolism in two steps
Step 1 is the catabolic breakdown of carbs, fat, and protein to extract energy in the form of electrons.
Step 2 is the translation of that energy into ATP using oxygen.
Step three: Energy production
Finally, the electrons of NADH and FADH2 are transferred to the electron transport chain (step 3), where they provide energy used to generate ATP molecules; this step needs the input of vitamins B2, B3, B5 and of iron.
Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7019700/*) Energy and nutrients needed for metabolism
- Carbs => Pyruvic acid => Acetyl CoA: Mg, B1 B2 (FAD) B3 (NAD) + B5
Required nutrients to extract energy in the form of electrons (electrons in the transport chain) (= oxidative phosphorylation => oxidation-reduction reactions are vital for ATP synthesis) - Acetyl CoA => Citric Acid Circle (Krebs circle): B1, B2 (FAD), B3 (NAD), Mg, Mn, Fe, GSH + B5
*) Proportion of B-vitamins
Good B-complex vitamin preparations contain:- the same amount of vitamins B1, B2, and B6.
- at least 4 times more vitamin B3
- at least 2 times more vitamin B5
Source: Zoelho.com Pharma-Dr.
- Carbs => Pyruvic acid => Acetyl CoA: Mg, B1 B2 (FAD) B3 (NAD) + B5
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*) Proportion of B-vitamins
Good B-complex vitamin preparations contain:- the same amount of vitamins B1, B2, and B6.
- at least 4 times more vitamin B3
- at least 2 times more vitamin B5
Hey i believe bs work in synergy with each other if u supplement b1 u need b2 b3, thats why i only use a b complex for b vitamins, if we were to use 4x time of b3 at 100mg of b1 that would cause histamine issues and peat said you shouldn't use more that 100mg of b3 in a single use, i think thorne makes the best methylated b complex outthere, even using 100mg of p5p a day would causes issues soon enough, peat rightfully said u should not use more than 10mg a day especially the active form, i dont know where u found those proportions from but they make no sense. How does bcomplex cause cell growth cancer btw is it the methylated b12 and methyfolate?
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@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
i dont know where u found those proportions from but they make no sense.
- I gave the source for the proportions (a pharma-doctor) and for the required nutrients for the assimalitation of macronutrients (link of the study), with a focus on energy. Not only.
- The proportions are given for RDA doses.
Of course if you take +/ 100 mg B1, you aren’t going to do the same (x100) with other B-vitamins.
However, taking HD B1 is going to “burn” more B2, for example. - As you showed a lot of sympathy in your last message, I’m not going to search for the study where I read it to be cautious when taking B1 between 12 and 92 mg (cell growth).
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@LucH 100mg a day is more than safe, hell even haidut managed to reverse mice tumors based on peats recommendations of using b1, dont think it causes cancer if anything deficiency of b1 causes cancer and most people today are deficient of it because of excessive sugar consumption and lack of nutrients associated with modern diets.
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@lykos
Haidut is not the new messy (interaction not taken into account; limited target of the study).
Even if I appreciate him much. Great work.
Now, you’d better read again what I said:
The preceding graph was there for general purpose (other readers too).
So I repeat:
B1 should be taken as a RDA (1.2 mg) or above 92 mg. So, 100 mg B1 HCl is fine every day if you metabolize well (listen to your feeling). Not a B50 every day. Otherwise it stimulate cell growth (cancer). See beneath for sources.
NB: RDA + 0.5 mg per 1000 K/cal.Graph with useful nutrients in Krebs cycle.
Note: We often lack B1 (refined carbs in pasta, rice and cereals), magnesium (not brought enough by food) and B6 (low-grade inflammation exhaust it). And we haven’t even talk about other possible highjacks.
For instance we haven't even considered B3 burners to produce tryptophan in patients undergoing a prolonged course of natural orange juice, milk and bone broth for collagen intake.
Considering there is a narrow interaction between B1 B2 B3 and biotin to burn carbs. Not only. But I try to limit the comment.In the context of an "exhausted" patient or someone with borderline mental health issues, here is the metabolic logic for the B3 dosage:
The "Sparing" Dose: 50–100 mg.If a patient is taking 100 mg of B1 but no other B-vitamins, they are pushing the Pyruvate Dehydrogenase (PDH) complex hard to burn through the sugar in a HD orange juice.
• The Problem: HD B1 increases the demand for its "teammate" B3 (NAD+). If the patient isn't supplementing B3, the body will prioritize energy production over everything else.The Tryptophan Drain: To get the needed B3, the liver will aggressively convert Tryptophan to Niacin at a terrible 60:1 ratio, as mentioned in most studies.
• The Minimum Fix: Research suggests that just 50–100 mg of Niacinamide (B3) is usually enough to provide the "pre-formed" niacin the cycle needs. This "shuts off" the body's emergency need to cannibalize Tryptophan, effectively "sparing" it for the brain to use for Serotonin.Why 100 mg B1 alone is risky (without appropriate cofactors)
If you're already doing 100mg of B1 to handle the carbs, you're creating a bottleneck. Without at least 50-100mg of B3 (Niacinamide), the B1 just forces the body to hijack Tryptophan to keep the lights on. You end up 'curing' your metabolism but crashing your serotonin and spiking neurotoxic byproducts like Quinolinic acid. It’s a bad trade for anyone with a sensitive nervous system.Why B2 is part of the "Safety Net"
B2 is technically required to recycle B3. If you are low on B2, your B3 levels will drop faster, which then triggers the Tryptophan-drain you are trying to avoid. Interaction when one is missing.
Not required to take B2 every day. The "Protective" Dose: 5–10 mg of B2 every other day (half-life longer). A B-50 complex 2-3x weekly is usually sufficient too.
Now I could go on with B6, how much is required, why, with someone dealing with low-grade inflammation (arthrosis) or border-line (brain mood). Not all in once.
=> A clue: B6 is the final "key" that turns Tryptophan into Serotonin. Only B6 PLP. Mind excess B6 (with staple, if not 20-25 mg/d.).Sources and references
*) Linking vitamin B1 with cancer cell metabolism (2 examples)
"In 2001, Comin-Anduix et al. evaluated the effect of increasing thiamine supplementation in multiples of the RDI on an Ehrlich ascites tumor-mouse model [58]. Their findings indicated a statistically significant stimulatory effect of thiamine supplementation on tumor growth compared to non-supplemented controls. Moderate doses of 12.5 to 37.5 times the RDI had the greatest stimulatory effect, peaking at approximately 250% greater tumor cell proliferation with 25 times the RDI. Interestingly, at values above 75 times the RDI, no change was found in tumor cell proliferation, and a slight decrease was found at 2,500 times the RDI. This observation suggests that there is a specific range in which thiamine supports proliferation. "
https://cancerandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-3002-1-16
& Thiamine and cancer
RDI for adults: "The RDI of thiamine for adults 18 and older is 1.2 mg/d for men and 1.1 mg/d for women. "
Summary (LucH):75 x the RDI: 75 x 1.2 mg = 90 mg minimum B1.
Link of the study.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/2049-3002-1-16*) Thiamine analogues and angiogenesis
The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown.
Source: National Institutes of Health (NIH)
High Dose Vitamin B1 Reduces Proliferation in Cancer Cell Lines Analogous to Dichloroacetate
doi: 10.1007/s00280-014-2386-z 2014. Cancer Chemother Pharmacol.
Conclusion
Our findings suggest that high dose thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation by a mechanism similar to that described for dichloroacetate (Inhibition of PDKs – Pyruvate Dehydrogenase Kinases). -
@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
could diet alone suffice
@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
dont think it causes cancer
@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
I have trouble sleeping
You'll fix it.
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@LucH i know most of this, where is the study that proves b complex causes cancer?
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@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
where is the study that proves b complex causes cancer?
It's not the b-complex in itself; It's B1 in a B-50 complex taken on a usual way.
Link above. Only one link given. Not the right amount 50 mg B1.
Less than 12 mg or more than 90 mg.
100 mg B1 is fine if ...
So a dichotomous side effect (depending on the posology). (2 different effects). -
@LucH the b1 in thorne b complex is 100mg should be fine, btw i never seen b1 lower than 100mg in either b complex or isolated, smaller doses are usually added to cereals and processed fortified foods
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@lykos said in I have trouble sleeping:
btw i never seen b1 lower than 100mg in either b complex or isolated
Make a search with B-50 complex and you'll see a lot. When people are searching simply for a B complex co-enzymated, they are faced with RDA or a B-50. On iherb.com or amazon.com
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=B-50+complex+iherb.com&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Note I don't like searching on amazon site because what you see in the search engine is not always what uou'll see at last. False link. Except for a specific well targeted product, ti's OK then, most of the time. -
@LucH what do u think of my current diet for mthfr chicken breast, bacon, eggs, 2x times a week lentils, raw cheese 500g a week,raw honey, whole milk 2 glasses a day, potatoes boiled with the skin removed, i really like beef and i ate half a kilo of it a day before but it causes me issues. Am i missing anything, cant eat histamine foods and most fruits especially citrus fruits because of histamine, i eat raw honey for carbs and potatoes, milk.
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@LucH you helped me with some questions i had, thanks
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I didn’t intend to give a follow up about menus (coaching).
It takes time and energy.
Moreover you don’t read well what has been mentioned, and probably the links about histamine. Supposition. Why? => No feedback.
Moreover, I see you’ve have a tendency to argue / talk. Not a problem if you don’t agree or if you don’t follow the advice. You’re free to do so but I want transparency. Say it when you disagree.
But remind you can’t always perceive why I propose sth …
I’m rather directive in my attitude, a bit sharp for some people. 48 Hours delay is common before an answer.
You said:
“what do u think of my current diet for chicken breast, bacon, eggs, 2x times a week lentils, raw cheese 500g a week,raw honey, whole milk 2 glasses a day, potatoes boiled with the skin removed, i really like beef and i ate half a kilo of it a day before but it causes me issues. Am i missing anything, cant eat histamine foods and most fruits especially citrus fruits because of histamine, i eat raw honey for carbs and potatoes, milk”.
Comment:
I need a menu on 3 usual days. No need to give the weight or a detailed quantity, but I have to see the proportions with the macronutrients, the way you cook (fried, boiled), the nature (raw or smoked).
Separate the facts from the comments (2 parts). It takes time. Use a docx to organize them.
E.g. Breakfast with a medium banana, 1 cup full fat milk (240 ml) and 4 big tbsp oat flakes (brand mark), + pecan nuts 6 halves.
Not like this: banana + oat and milk with pecan nuts.
NB: I gave links to get informed on histamine: Why and which food. Go back and study them. I want a feedback. I want to see you do your homework … (humor).
Hope it can help.
Thanks for the last comment.
NB: 2 questions per post, except the first post. -
@LucH I know well which foods are high histamine or histamine liberators. Current diet is the same everyday on average. I know dates have histamine i eat a few of them because they are a guilty pleasure.
Breakfast: 1 glass of full fat pasteurized milk, 4 eggs slightly fried with butter, bacon.
Lunch: grilled chicken with fresh cheeses not aged, potatoes boiled without skin to avoid oxalates, raw honey
Dinner: milk, dates, raw honey, cheese again.Day 2
Breakfast: 4 fried eggs, fried bacon, milkLunch chicken,potatoes, bounty, potatoes cooked in the oven, cheese, raw honey.
Dinner: milk, dates, cottage cheese
Day 3
Breakfast 4 eggs, bacon , milk
Lunch : lentils left to bloom in water for one hour and then boiled fried onions and potatoes boiled, raw honey
dinner: milk, dates, chicken, cheese ,honeySupplements taken daily atm: thorn b basic 1 pill a day, magnesium glycinate 300mg
I will soon add betain once a day and maybe copper glycinate 2mg for dao support. -
@lykos Apart from potatoes (which have very little due to being skinned and boiled), you lack vitamin C
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@alfredoolivas i might supplement acerola powder, citrus fruits are histamine liberators, i used to squiz a lot of fresh orange juice until i had to stop, synthetic vitamin d and c lowers ceruloplasmin
