Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat
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idk about in context of bile, but iron chelation in fungi via doxycycline makes fluconazole anti fungal against some candida rather than just fungistatic or no effect. aspirin is also an iron chelator.
there’s a study that suggests organ cancers often come with fungal infection of that organ too.
fwiw the warnings about ketoconazole being particularly liver toxic are apparently not actually proven. the symptomatic liver damage incidence rate in all the azoles is about the same.
overall for fungal issues i think the patient gets treatment with a normal pharmaceutical antifungal dose and length (could be months), and then keep the antifungals on hand to pulse dose as needed if symptoms return. and then use things like aspirin and doxycycine, include some niacinamide, sunbathing and nutrition etc to keep the stuff in check. total eradication of fungi seems impossible on a realistic sense
if bile is a reservoir for fungi maybe just eating high bile binding foods regularly can flush it out. rather than recirculating bile more
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@CrumblingCookie nystatin is pretty weak ime but i guess it depends on which fungi
ketoconazole cream works way better ime but idk what strains it is working agaisnt. i think mallesseziaberberine seems interesting, is it peaty ? it isnt right, because it is like metformin and metformin isnt peaty
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Thanks for sharing.
Indeed I currently find myself in a situation wherein I don't know for how long in total to continue fluconazole. Months? It costs about $60/week for me. And it's difficult to say which depressive mental effects are true sides and which are due to various degrees of die-off.
I wonder what role the continous re-infection from bile plays in commonly required treatment length. The notion of it being impossible to clear from tissues is what I find unsettling, too.
Have started to add in berberine today, 500mg thrice daily. Along with ample propolis extract twice daily.
Luckily I've failed to make it to the store in time and stumbled upon some garlic in my kitchen drawers and have read up on allicin again.
One half to a full garlic bulb per day is allegedly a good guideline for powerful effects (about 1mg allicin per kg BW from 3-5mg allicin per g fresh garlic). Ground it/crush it, let it rest for 10 minutes for the allicidase to do its work before diluting it in food or adding any acids like vinegar.@sunsunsun said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
iron chelation in fungi via doxycycline makes fluconazole anti fungal against some candida rather than just fungistatic or no effect
That study is in-vitro and super misleading however, because few antibitiocs, if any other at all, are as fungal-infection promoting as the tetracyclines because of their powerful, continuous inhibition of phagocytosis lasting for days even after stopping further intake. Tetracyclines are one of the main risk factors for fungal infections in literature. Ime they are very overhyped and terrible.
As for ketoconazole I'm wary of its unique VDR antagonism which essentially inhibits innate immunity and reduces xenoautophagy of intracellular endomyceles. That also essentially makes ketoconazole topical creams a powerful antiinflammatory for skin conditions, saving the extra prednisolone so enamored by dermatologists.
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@sunsunsun Wax moths? They don't even have neutrophils and I won't deep-dive into finding out how their hemolymphs specifically compare to human or mammalian neutrophils.
I really do harbor strong apprehensions against the potential (mis)use of doxy on fungal infections.What I would much rather do is oral terbinafin + fluconazole.
The terbinafin by itself is useless against many fungi species but by disturbing an earlier point (Erg1) in the sterol biosynthesis pathway it is synergistic with azoles (which act upon Erg11).
allegedly it strongly inhibits expression of the fungal efflux pumps responsible for azole resistance!
(! Berberine is the one which inhibits efflux pump expression. I had mixed it up).
This still won't tackle activitiy in the biliary tract, though.I've done some more reading of publications on biliary / gallbladder candida / fungi.
Fungi can be causes of calculous (lithiasic) or also acalculous cholecystitis with or without mixed bacterial infections (Escherichia coli, Enterococcus, Klebsiella, Enterobacter, Clostridia).
Even in such rare and often fatal cases that happened to be documented, candidemia was rare despite frequent (almost always) fungal infection of other organs.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8862389/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28703118/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8764969/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12338181/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24474028/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8207288/I don't have visible gallbladder wall thickening or distention or an obviously, universally accepted liver disease (except for hepatomegaly) but if I had I sure as hell would want to insist on flucytosine, or flucytosine + i.v amphotericin B along with any broad-spectrum antibiotics and before mutilating surgeries they'd offer.
Have looked more into berberine again, too. It's impossible to achieve its antimicrobial concentrations (at least 0.1mg/mL) systemically. Serum concentrations are about 0.5 - 16 ng/mL. I.e. 0.000005 mg/mL. Ridiculous!
The berberine in practical doses of 500-1500mg will thus be acting mainly within the GI lumen in support of oral Ampho-B. Berberine has low absorption but some will spill over to reach the liver for extensive first-pass metabolism, yet probably not into biliary ducts. -
Great points, guys.
My current working hypothesis is rotating and combining several anti fungals daily + keeping bile flowing.
If i don't rotate the antifungals they seem to loose effect surprisingly quickly.
But what is obvious from many studies, is that combining certain anti fungals can drastically increase their effectiveness. Nystatin is synergistic with thymoquinone and also thymol IIRC.The other important part is to keep bile flowing and excreting it. The lowtoxin crowd actually has a point there. Inducing a bile dump seems very therapeutic to me and followed by certain time of remission/ relieve.
So having adequate fiber intake seems important. Pectin is helpful, vitamin D and K as well.
I also ordered an herb that's used for cholestasis in TCM called Artemisia capillaris it has a lot of studies on liver health and general anti-inflammatory effects. -
@sunsunsun said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
idk about in context of bile, but iron chelation in fungi via doxycycline makes fluconazole anti fungal against some candida rather than just fungistatic or no effect. aspirin is also an iron chelator.
Makes sense. I've been using an iron cast pan for years and my ferritin came back very high.
Maybe that contributed to my susceptibility to (fungal) infections.@sunsunsun said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
total eradication of fungi seems impossible on a realistic sense
if bile is a reservoir for fungi maybe just eating high bile binding foods regularly can flush it out. rather than recirculating bile more
Yes agreed
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@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
Any info on how methylsulfonylmethane would be antifungal?
They say it's the sulfur in it. There's not a lot of evidence for that though. From my experience it is definitely anti-fungal.
I suspect it can chelate metals. Usually that doesn't just involve the bad heavy metals but also the good ones. So Id make sure to test my minerals and keep intake high when taking it long term.Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
For what it's worth, let me throw in some tidbits from what I've conjectured over my 2 decades of trying to lower my blood pressure. I've done a lot from eliminating a lot of periodontal bacteria that has translocated to my vascularure to chelating lead lately using Emeramide. Through a process of elimination of these possible causes, I have been halfway successful only though in lowering my blood pressure. From 260/160 to a current 169/110, I still have ways to go.
But I still some light at the end of the tunnel though. And it is something I have overlooked. As fungal infection has always been under the radar and an afterthought inmedical circles. Doxtors would treat bacteria with antibiotics, and rarely talk about fungus. A confinement in a hospital would see a patient get well from antiiotic administration, but a discharge would be delayed only because the good doctor for some hunch decides to give some antifungals..
I would later realize that some antibiotics are known to transform bacteria into cell wall- deficient microbes that are harder to kill because they lack this cell wall which is used to kill microbes with antibiotics. This transformation from bacterial form to a form halfway between bacteria and a fungi ia at the hear of a ' competing medical dogma called terrain theory, which is opposed to the mainstream model based on herm theory- where all microbes are accepted as being static in nature, and do not pleomorph, as would be what happens when commensal and regulatory (aka friendly bacteria) turn from Dr. Jekyll into Dr. Hyde, and become pathogenic.
But this should explain to me why it has become common practice for doctors to administer antifungal drugs after successfully treating a patient with antibiotics. But they cannot explain why, for to say the real reason is to somehow agree that terrain theory is real, which is anathema to their cornerstone germ theory.
But back to my vexing problem of fixing my high BP problem, which is on its 26th year.
Lately, I had began taking artemisia annua tincture which saw me successfully lower my BP from 200./150 to 150/100. I took this as an antifungal to hyphal aspergillosis (aspergillus niger is also known as black mold. How I got this is another story).
It would be nice if my BP kept going down to 120/80. That would be a nice end to this story.
But my BP held at around 150/100 - 160/110. I was still urinating foamy urine. And I realize that this is the result of a continuing activation of neutrophils and macrophages th as t I would conclude from my CBC test, showing my wbc to be high and my neutrophils and monocytes to be high.
Even as my eosinophils have gone down as the large hyphal aspergillus fungal parasite colony have been markedly reduced. But the fungus took on a smaller form called a clamydophore. And in this form, more neutrophils and macrophages were needed to kill or neutralize them.
This is the reason why in my CBC test, there would be a high count both in neutrophils and monoxytes.Yet Iinflammation and oxidative stresses from ROS being produced and spilling over to destroy adjacent tissues would keep occurring, and that my body would have to use its antioxidants to protect tissues from.being destroyed. The main extracellular antioxidant would be called upon again, and albumin would be oxidized and excreted in urine. Which would explain foam in my urine. As well as mynhigh BP as my albumin stores in plasma would be insufficient to hold on to salt, with salt being needed to keep my plasma and blood volume high enough. The body compensates by increasing blood pressure.
But this fungal presence is hard to destroy. As you would concur. What I am trying now, in addition to turpentine and artemisia annua, is the use of Lugol's Iodine. In the next weeks and months, I will find out.
Looking back, I can't help but see why my LDH has always been high at around 260. I think it is because I have hemolysis. Under the radar. It is from an underlying fungal presence that needs to feed off iron from red blood cells it breaks down.
Since heme oxygenase enzyme breaks down the heme from hemolyzed red blood cells, the carbon monoxide could also explain why when I look at my heart rate chart, I would see occasional transient sharp drop in my heart rate even when my spO2 chart says I have a lot of oxygen at that given time. It is because a typical.oximeter cannot distinguish carbon monoxide from.oxygen, and the carbon monoxide is masking as oxygen, even as my heart cannot use the carbon monoxide to produce energy. I have a bit of carboxyhemoglobinemia. That is how I see it. And that would be a result if an ongoing case of chronic low level hemolysis caused by iron-hungry aspergillus fungi. The same fungi that is causing high BP stealthily.
Fungi remains as a. bogeyman to us.
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@Mauritio taurine for bile excretion actually seems better than TUDCA at their relative normal doses (3g per day for taurine vs 500mg per day for TUDCA)
