Recovery from concussion
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Over a week ago, I sustained a bad concussion and still feel the side effects what is the best way to recover
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@Dezbio My first instinct would be Progest-E. Topical around the site of injury and also applied to gums. Coffee, sugar, B1, can also be helpful.
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Have heard and read a lot about MB really helping a lot of people
https://twitter.com/Outdoctrination/status/1757507183913394305
A place to start
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What are your symptoms?
I sustained 2 concussions within a 6 month period a few years back and still struggle with some concussion stuff so have made it's my life's mission to recover, so know quite a bit about this.
The good news is you're only a week out so totally common to still have symptoms.
Definitely worth seeing a doctor that is up to date on the latest concussion info - most aren't and there is plenty of misinformation out there, a lot of doctors will leave you worse than they found you.
A multi disciplinary concussion clinic is always a good sign. This is a good place to start: https://concussionfoundation.org/concussion-resources/concussion-clinics
In the short term, provide yourself plenty of opportunity to rest, and don't push it too much. The idea of laying in the dark until your symptoms resolve is no longer good advice, but you do need to rest and recover.
I've also heard MB can be helpful although I've been scared to try it myself since I've heard it can cause serotonin syndrome and and issues if you take while doing high tyramine foods
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TIMING IS VERY IMPORTANT
“If you're deficient in progesterone, you run the risk of over exciting the brain and any injury and it doesn't have to be a behavioral stress, but just a physical knock on the head that excites the nerves and if you get enough progesterone soon enough, the brain recovers with great ability. Just being low in progesterone, any little stress becomes a dangerous injury. And the Steins group in the last 10 years has made great progress in treating traffic accident victims of concussion and brain injury with progesterone.” Ray Peat
Thiamine and b vitamins in general.
No calorie restriction
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I had post concussive symptoms for 10 years, extreme light sensitivity and migraines, and general sensation that something is misaligned but couldn't pinpoint what exactly. All of that resolved with progest-e when no neurologist had a solution, legit saved me.
Pregnenolone is good but most manufacturers suck and the ones that don't I don't feel anything from. Just take progest-e. You will be normal again. -
@izkrov I thought pregnenolone was safer than progesterone as a man because progesterone can convert to estrogen if you overdo it?
I took some pregnenolone last week but either didn't help me at all or made me worse, hard to tell.
I also went on TRT last week, took my first shot and by the next day my PCS was 90% resolved. Only lasted 3 days but at least gave me hope that theres something there.
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thought pregnenolone was safer than progesterone as a man
Generally yes. Pregnenolone is safer but if it's poorly made then you will feel an estrogenic effect.
progesterone can convert to estrogen if you overdo it?
At small amounts it opposes estrogen, at a progesterone abundance it opposes testosterone and estrogen; it will never convert to estrogen. I recommend progest-e is because it's one of the few things on the market I trust.
Only lasted 3 days but at least gave me hope that theres something there.
Testosterone is protective but I don't think it's regenerative like progesterone. Taking progesterone along with testosterone is also helpful because you're ensuring that testosterone doesn't aromatize to estrogen in the case of stress
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@izkrov so if i'm understanding correctly, it never converts to estrogen, just lowers testosterone in high doses? And because in small doses it opposes estrogen, then it prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen? Do I understand all of that correctly?
It's funny, because I could've sworn I read Ray Peat advocated for doing prenenolone directly after a brain injury, so I thought I was doing the right thing.
Also interestingly enough, within 3 days of starting on testosterone, I started taking prenenolone, on the orders of my functional doctor (same one that prescribed the TRT), because my pregnenlone levels were low. By night 3, I felt absolutely terrible, had a migraine coming on, which lasted another 3 days, had absolutely zero energy, did a total 180 from how well I felt before. Felt 100x worse in fact. I was assuming that the testosterone was aromatizing but I guess now I'm thinking the pregnenolone wasn't helping my case either.
I'm a little nervous to start experimenting, I feel like my brain has been through enough, but also need to get my life back so I think progest-e might be worth a shot, thanks. Also just read the thread about the guy who posted that his brother went into a psychotic episode after doing a bunch of supplements and "peating" so I think that's part of it too haha.
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@irs Yes all of that is correct. Pregnenolone is the precursor to progesterone and both have regenerative effects. Taking pregnenolone is one of the best things you can do for a concussion, if you're not getting the pozzed version of it. I don't think you mentioned which brand of pregnenolone you were using, so if it's a doctor that prescribed it, I'm not sure what you're getting off the shelf on there's very high quality. Especially if you're having a migraine and a loss of energy, that's a sure sign something's estrogenic in there. It's why I'm so gung ho on progest-e, especially in the territory of experimentation, you don't want to try a hormone made by some drooling retard.
And I remember that thread. The guy's a silly billy for sure.
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@izkrov lol thanks. I took the life extensions one: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Pregnenolone-100-capsules/dp/B0002D3890
But was dumping most of the capsule out and starting with 10ish mg. I took this Saturday and Monday. I remember on Monday it made me feel super chilled out for a little while, but then the migraine came back.
On Sunday I tried this other one I had lying around, but tbh it came with a very tiny spoon and so trying to nail the 10mg dosage on that was nearly impossible. I ended up just putting a tiny little crumb inside my mouth and honestly could've been 1mg for all I know: https://shop.forefronthealth.com/collections/all/products/pregnenolone-supplement-powder
The other thing that makes me think I was dealing with an estrogen issue is I took 3mg of Thorne k2 on Tuesday, after not doing any pregnenolone that day (and it being 5 days after I took the TRT), and pulled myself out of the migraine by that night.
I don't know what else wouldve caused it, I felt so fucking terrible, and was eating like 4,000 - 5,000 calories per day, eating dinner twice, just shoveling food in my mouth trying to get some energy back.
Anyways, sounds like I could start small w/ progest-e and see what happens, what kind of dosage did you use to bounce back? Does it matter that I have low pregnenlone levels too?
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@irs
Well, regardless of the cause, the culprit is the same. Progesterone should also help with the symptoms of low pregnenolone. You could argue since you need thyroid to convert cholesterol into pregnenolone that you're hypothyroid, but I don't think it would most directly address your issue of a concussion. Progest-e does help correct the thyroid gland as well. I think it's the way to go.I took 5 (corn kernel sized) drops of progest-e did per day and that did it for me.
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@izkrov Awesome thank you! And I def think I'm hypothyroid, my TSH was on the higher side, and I have many symptoms. My doctor described it as "cushing-esque"
This all makes sense, thanks for your help. Going to order the progest-e today
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@izkrov Did you take the 5 kernels all at once, and did you take any days off? Also how did you take it?
I got some in the mail a few days ago, took my first dose 3ish days ago. Very small dose, we'll call it half a kernel lol just to try it out, and rubbed it into my wrist. Felt my mood lift and a little spacey but in a good way about 30 mins in. Felt very calm until Fridayish.
It almost felt like if I took anymore it would've been too sedating.
Took my TRT shot Friday, felt a little speedy until yesterday and then felt anxious last night and today.
Took some more Progest-e today, this time it was almost a kernel, again rubbed it on my wrist. About 30 mins later I felt sleepy, slightly euphoric. Then it kind of dissipated and now I feel a little chilled out.
Wondering at what point to increase the dose and the frequency? I read Ray Peat saying that a man should do a kernel once every few days but seems like you were doing way more for concussion recovery
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Also worth adding, I was super horny and felt the effects of TRT up until Friday. I took another dose then, but Friday night, yesterday and today felt emotional. Since I took the Progest-e today I've noticed I feel a lot more even keeled and my libido is picking back up so wonder if its preventing the TRT from aromatizing
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A disulfide thiamine derivative like the one in Energin. An NMDA antagonist such as memantine, agmatine or magnesium l-threonate. A source of phospholipids as well as coffee, ginkgo biloba and panax ginseng.
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@irs Yeah the recommended dose by Ray was one kernel through any membrane, but when he was pitching it to clinics (or someplace else) they rejected what he said because he was arguing you couldn't give an exact prescriptive dosage, and that the intuition of the person taking it is what matters, and they can auto adjust the dosage for themselves.
I took 5 at once orally during the day because I only felt clearance of pain, with no sedation or sleepiness. i've read people take breaks every 2 weeks because the liver becomes efficient at digesting it and you don't get the full effect, but I didn't take any breaks. I've read people on RPF taking a lot more spread out per day, though if you feel sedated from a singular one then I wouldn't go above 2-3 spread out per day
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@Dezbio said in Recovery from concussion:
Over a week ago, I sustained a bad concussion and still feel the side effects what is the best way to recover
Hyperbaric oxygen therapy would probably help heal the brain but is expensive. The one where you wear a mask to get the oxygen is probably safer, less explosion risk...
Low dose over the counter Lithium may help. It is peaty. Neuroprotective. Promotes BDNF, brain fertilizer.
Carbon dioxide therapy. I don't know much about it. It is peaty though.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/the-psychoactive-effects-of-carbon-dioxide.47851/
"..arteries dilate, delivering more oxygen-rich blood to the brain"
Important precautions in that link too.And just simply going for walks or stretching could really help. Light exercise increasing BDNF, tissue oxygenation.
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@izkrov awesome thank you!
The sedating effects didnt seem to last very long so i think the 2-3 per day makes sense. Within maybe 2ish hours of taking it yesterday I felt calm but not necessarily sedated and then even that seemed to taper off for me.
It's not unusual for my body to have a very low tolerance to anything new at first but then it usually builds.
@Dezbio I did a HBOT protocol specifically for brain injuries, 5 days a week for 8 weeks, 1.5 hours/day. It definitely was helpful and I got several steps ahead of where I was at, but don't know if it was worth the 8 grand I paid for it.
I met other people there who is did help, for things such as having severe strokes and whatnot, so my opinion is it works really well for some people some of the time.
I've heard really good things about lithium as well
