Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk
-
@Nabokov *links pravastatin to a lowered rate of cvd
-
The "range of CVD risk" seems a loaded term. Instead of thinking in terms pre-defined for you, you look at the physical reality that higher cholesterol people have a lower chance of CVD. It also just shows lower all-cause mortality.
Haidut wrote about CVD being caused by statins though: http://haidut.me/?p=2425
-
@izkrov Fair, but actually the study compares all-cause and cardiovascular:
-
Hmmm, I don't know if Ray believed that or not. There's a fine line between accepting the lipid theory of disease and denying a link between high cholesterol and mortality.
Ray firmly believed the lipid theory of disease was bad science. That is, the belief saturated fat or cholesterol causes heart disease.
I don't actually think Ray would tell people high cholesterol is good because high cholesterol is a sign of metabolic dysfunction. One of Ray's biggest influences, Broda Barnes, proved this in his comprehensive thyroid study.
In fact, I do remember a quote from Ray somewhere where he said thyroid was the only "safe way to lower the cholesterol."
-
@Nabokov said in Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk:
Ray wrote about the false link between cholesterol and heart disease, but I just came across this study which conclusively links pravastatin to a lowered cardiovascular rate and the data and design look sound. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26864092/
There are many studies on the apparent efficacy of statins, this one isn't particularly special, but it does seem to prove that they work, which Ray disputed. Does anyone have a better understanding of cholesterol, CVD, and statins?
The main problem is oxidized cholesterol, particularly oxLDL (oxidized by PUFA or other oxidative and inflammatory things).
There are people that are genetically predisposed to have high LDL and high cholesterol, yet they don't get a higher rate of cardiovascular diseases: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17512433.2018.1519391
Some studies show that statins can be anti-inflammatory and anti-microbial aside from their anti-cholesterol effect, so this might be why some studies find that it lowers CVD:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd1901
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4447369/ -
@Nabokov /all
Cholesterol level could be a symptom of endotoxin exposition, higher requirement for steroid hormones synthesis. Let's don't fight the symptom but the cause.
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/11/21/protection-from-endotoxin/
https://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12944-023-01817-z
" These results suggest that HDL may promote neuroinflammation through direct shuttling of endotoxin to the brain. In contrast, LDL was shown to have anti-neuroinflammatory properties in this study. "Statins block endotoxin TLR-4 (as LDN, red rice, PuerH, some mushrooms). So statins/endotoxin/cholesterol are interrelated.
Larger doses of statin not only deplete COQ10, but all lipid transport related substances.
Statins lower also selenium.
Rhabdomyolysis could be related to selenium deficiency.
https://suzycohen.com/articles/6-reasons-to-take-selenium/ -
@Creuset said in Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk:
@Nabokov said in Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk:
Ray wrote about the false link between cholesterol and heart disease, but I just came across this study which conclusively links pravastatin to a lowered cardiovascular rate and the data and design look sound. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26864092/
There are many studies on the apparent efficacy of statins, this one isn't particularly special, but it does seem to prove that they work, which Ray disputed. Does anyone have a better understanding of cholesterol, CVD, and statins?
The main problem is oxidized cholesterol, particularly oxLDL (oxidized by PUFA or other oxidative and inflammatory things).
There are people that are genetically predisposed to have high LDL and high cholesterol, yet they don't get a higher rate of cardiovascular diseases: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17512433.2018.1519391
Some studies show that statins can be anti-inflammatory and anti-microbial aside from their anti-cholesterol effect, so this might be why some studies find that it lowers CVD:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd1901
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4447369/Explain familial hypercholesterolemia and people who have this condition getting heart attacks in their 30s and 40s if not treated with lipid lowering drugs.
-
@GreekDemiGod What is your evidence for this statement?
Also, do they only have hypercholesterolemia, or also high oxLDL, triglyclerides, obesity, hypothyroidism, and other metabolic problems?
And how many PUFA are they consumming?
I see many possible confounding variables if you only analyze things from this single angle.
-
@Creuset You want to reduce the risk in normal population, who is not mindful of PUFA intake and will never be. People need to be given solutions that work without changing their nutrition or lifestyle much.
I just got out of the ICU, I'm still in the hospital and getting lots of blood thinners and anti coagulants, honestly, I'm very scared of the future, when I get home or start to work again, bit is not the reason I came here.
I have 1m 70cm, 86kg, strong build but definitely have a dad belly. Since I was a kid I have a very high cholesterol, when it was discovered (10 years old) it was about 800, and I was not a normal kid, my case was even used in a conference to show that body fat is not exactly equal to low cholesterol.
I have a history of heart disease in my father's side, my grandpa had a heart attack at 52 and my father had a defective valve on the aorta, he died in the surgery about 15 years ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/16eocc8/im_27_and_just_had_a_heart_attack/
-
@GreekDemiGod said in Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk:
@Creuset You want to reduce the risk in normal population, who is not mindful of PUFA intake and will never be. People need to be given solutions that work without changing their nutrition or lifestyle much.
I personally don't want anything no, I am not a moralist nor a politician, and I don't consider other humans as cattle that need to be led by a shepherd. I am just trying to describe what we know about a specific topic and to be accurate about it (and I don't claim to hold the absolute truth on a topic, always open to new evidence).
Besides, if the current medical recommendations were actually working to reduce risk of CVD, we would see a reduction, yet we actually see the opposite.
I just got out of the ICU, I'm still in the hospital and getting lots of blood thinners and anti coagulants, honestly, I'm very scared of the future, when I get home or start to work again, bit is not the reason I came here.
I have 1m 70cm, 86kg, strong build but definitely have a dad belly. Since I was a kid I have a very high cholesterol, when it was discovered (10 years old) it was about 800, and I was not a normal kid, my case was even used in a conference to show that body fat is not exactly equal to low cholesterol.
I have a history of heart disease in my father's side, my grandpa had a heart attack at 52 and my father had a defective valve on the aorta, he died in the surgery about 15 years ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/16eocc8/im_27_and_just_had_a_heart_attack/This is anecdotal evidence. I already posted this earlier, how do you explain it:
There are people that are genetically predisposed to have high LDL and high cholesterol levels, yet they don't get a higher rate of cardiovascular diseases than people with normal cholesterol levels: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17512433.2018.1519391
-
-
@Nabokov said in Why are Statins bad if your cholesterol puts you in the range of CVD risk:
Ray wrote about the false link between cholesterol and heart disease
Quote something! Put some effort into your posts. Try to bring an argument of substance to the table. This is TRASH. it's worthless. Try again.
-
@Nabokov I have always had very high cholesterol and also bad HDL to LDL ratios. Maybe this particular statin helps against arterial inflammation, which is really the cause of CVD? I have not taken any statins after my CBAG (bypass surgery) more than a couple decades ago. New studies show that very low does statins less than 5 mg per day help with arterial inflammation and I am thinking of taking them. Not Lipitor, but Crestor and Livalo. Perhaps Parastatin has the same affect.
