Fixing my problems
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Intro and background
Hi there, I've been following Peat and the community for a while now mainly through Danny Roddy's YouTube channel but I've never been a fan of forums until now. I started watching Danny back in 2019 I think because I had bad acne and my hairline ever so slightly was receding though it hasn't much since then. I was only a teenager then and so I didn't do much research and only done the bare minimum resulting in little to no change and actually a worsening of my acne. I think this was due to a zinc, VA and pantothenic acid deficiency (at least one of them). Or possibly an inability to process VA properly. I took a break from trying to solve health problems and just started living my life instead for about 2-3 years until a couple of months ago.
I had been heavily drinking in these years due to my social life and it was fun but I neglected my health and was irresponsible. Once I started getting panic attacks the day after a drink I stopped drinking and it was very easy which makes me think I wasn't addicted to the alcohol or using it as an escape from my problems since I quite cold turkey pretty easily.
Recently I've had to deal with some pretty intense anxiety and headaches and really just all sorts of symptoms like fibromyalgia. Quite literally felt like I was going insane for a couple of months and I was searching for answers everywhere in the peat world.
After experimenting recently I think I have figured out where my problems are coming from and I am going to use this log to document it for my own mental health and just to keep a record. I figured it would be cool to do this on the forum to see other peoples input and opinion as I have found journaling to be helpful so this could be too. I want to share my thoughts on not only nutrition but lifestyle as a means to achieving a flourishing mind and body.
My recent diet and lifestyle endeavours have included the Low VA approach and it gave me some relief but not very profound relief and I am realising the problems with this approach through my own experimentation. I think it is due to an irregular metabolism of VA instead of the view that all VA is poison. After reading @Amazoniac I realised this and after experimenting on myself.
So I started eating this diet, lots of beef, chicken, beans, bread, rice, oats you name it. I noticed it somewhat cleared my anxiety. My acne still remained.
I was taking thiamine Niacinamide aspirin and biotin as well as some thyroid and vitamin K2. Pretty good stack.
Started getting a lot of small little cherry angiomas (really small) which I assume is a sign of estrogen.
Noticed my skin was looking nicer on my whole body especially hands, it was feeling smooth.
Brain fog clearing but replaced with laziness and ADHD like symptoms and still not quite got that mental capacity I used to.
Skin becoming thinner like I am aging rapidly!!!I literally noticed this yesterday and so I decided to look on YouTube at some of these low VA people and they all have the same problem with no improvement (only worsening). If you look at Garret smith you can see it in his face, his skin looks so thin (I went back to his oldest video and it did not look like this) grant genereax as well. You can also look at any of the testimonials on his YouTube and the people have very thin skin. It doesn't look healthy. Then I decided to look at all the people practicing Peat principled approaches. They all have glowing tight and plump skin including peat himself.
Another thing I noticed is decreased brain power, I also noticed changes in the skull shape of some of these low A practitioners and I think it is telling as their skull seems to be getting smaller and their brow ridge regressing. I had noticed these changes in myself. I tend to notice these things in people. I am often very analytical and have even been criticised by my family for being this way. I had seen someone mention on the low A thread on RPF that Grants resting heart rate was 50. This is not the way and I think it achieves results (when it actually does) because it lowers the inflammation created from these retinoids. Your body has a hard time processing retinoids because it doesn't have much of a purpose for them as you metabolism is too shot.I'm going to include vitamin A foods back into my diet as every time I do I get my mental capacity back and skin feels better.
Problems recently
- acne
- thin skin
- cherry angiomas popping up
- mental laziness and slowness
- swollen lymph nodes
- occasional bodily aches
- frequent diarrhoea (issue may have already been solved)
Supplements recently have been:
- Biotin 10-20mg a day
- Niacinamide 20-80mg doses spread throughout the day when needed
- Thiamine HCL 1g morning
- Pantothenic acid (40-80mg in the evening)
- Taurine 500mg
- K2 when I feel like it.
- No more thyroid although I may reintroduce some small doses
Been seeing great results with the pantothenic acid in terms of bowel movements. I should note that I've been getting really thin stools but since starting on pantothenic acid it has since improved and become more bulky. Im also including more fibre like oats, beans, apples etc. which I think is something that the Toxic Bile Theory gets correct in some respects. We need something to bind bile so it doesn't get reabsorbed and cause problems, allow the body to excrete what it wants to excrete.
If you finished all that then thanks for reading and lmk your thoughts. I'm still new and learning so have patience for my lack of understanding.
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Recently
So after doing that low VA thing I've concluded that it is 100% essential. Pretty much been supplementing B vitamins Biotin, riboflavin, niacinamide and thiamine.
Noticed after a while on biotin that it made my skin super thin and dry and it lost its elasticity like it was aging at an accelerated rate. After adding in riboflavin it seemed to soften my skin and I discovered that riboflavin was needed for the conversion of retinol to retinoic acid so I presumed it was increasing my utilisation of vitamin A. I have been eating eggs and butter and such and not shying away from VA foods but it hasn't really provided to a large extent relief from the symptoms of thin skin. I think biotin increases the turnover rate in which retinol is utilised (I have no evidence just speculation) and riboflavin increases the conversion to retinoic acid hence it's skin softening effects.
Also a lot of new little (I mean really small) cherry angiomas which I stopped getting after reintroducing eggs back in the diet
I have also been experiencing brain fog and feeling really tired which I felt was related.
So pretty much I had a little bit of lamb liver this evening in a chicken curry and immediately after I noticed my heart rate climbing but not in an adrenaline type of way, in a good way. Mental elasticity coming back, I'm thinking a lot more quickly and recalling a lot more things as well as cracking more jokes. I just felt better. My skin felt warm and less dry and seemed to regain it's elasticity pretty quickly
I have also had acne for as long as I can remember so that would suggest I've been deficient for a long time and considering I am young I feel my steroid production is pretty high thus utilising the majority of the VA and none really getting to the less important areas like the skin.
My conclusion so far
So I 100% believe that these people on the low A thing are too caught up in the ideology. The excuse as to why people feel better after taking VA for them is that "it shoves it back into the liver and knocks it out of the blood" which I just totally do not buy. They are too caught up in feeling horrible and then subsequently calling it a detox reaction, feeding this endless cycle of detox reactions.
All the evidence in my own body points towards this vitamin being essential and the only way I think people get away with not having it is because their metabolism is very shot.
Common arguments made is that VA is making up for a zinc and protein deficiency. Well I've been supplementing with both (zinc and taurine) and they have not provided the same effects as increasing VA. Zinc slightly helped out but not for long. Although I think zinc is vitally important for proper VA metabolism.
I also think that the same arguments these low A people make for grant being close to zero can be made for people like Peat, Georgi and Danny Roddy. That argument would be 'how come people like these haven't had any problems while eating copious amounts of VA for years?' in their estimation Peat should have died long ago and Roddy and Georgi should have a myriad of autoimmune issues.
Yet they don't.I suspect Grants success is from eliminating PUFA and going on a super low fat diet while also increasing his zinc and protein making up for those deficiencies.
And as mentioned in my previous post it is clear at least to me from looking at the videos of these Low A people that they have very thin skin that looks unhealthy from my standpoint. Peaters have plump vibrant skin. big difference.
Anyway rant over.
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Just taking a layman's stab at it, and don't completely take my word for it, but my guess is that your issues are originating in your gut.
Care to list your full diet including the occasional foods? Or even the foods, meds and supplements you've dropped in the past that may have led you to this state?
I don't see any reference to gelatinous foods, bone broths, collagen related, tripe or other Glycine rich foods. I'd start adding those in since they digest easily, heal the intestine, and quite a few other things. Food based is often best but there are quality collagen and gelatin products you can buy too.
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Yea so I’d have to agree with you but I also think several nutrient deficiencies were at play as well.
I had been having terrible gut issues that started a few months back and is starting to resolve this past month. Terrible acid reflux, constipation and pains down there.
I got caught up in all that low A nonsense and started including fibre in my diet and noticed things getting better.
So I still include a lot of fibre these days as it seems to give me regular bulky bowel movements unlike what I had before getting virtually no fibre.
I know my issue is with my gut because I am constantly getting the white coat on my tongue. I’m eating oats and eggs in the morning, usually some kind of meat and carb meal with some fibre for lunch and dinner. Started including liver which made a huge difference for feeling good. I drink skimmed milk throughout the day. Not yet including gelatin because I couldn’t get a good source but have now found a local shop selling oxtail so I’ll give that a go.
I had good reactions with mushrooms before but it’s a long and tedious process preparing them and I would get mixed reactions from the carrot salad I think because of the carotene content.
If you’ve got any recommendations in terms of fibre I’d be all ears.
Other fibre sources I get which are apples, wild rice and occasional beans.
I mostly do starch because fruit is expensive and low quality where I live although I may have found a good source recently.
So next things to include would be the gelatin, up my calcium and include insoluble fibre to clear endotoxin.
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Getting incredible results from liver and increasing calcium. Small amounts of Niacinamide, thiamine, riboflavin and biotin. Occasional zinc. Just started D3 topically. Also took a little bit of thyroid today (Tyromix)
- Hairline is growing back.
- Increased ability to concentrate on tasks.
- clearer thicker skin
- maxilla is moving forward
- leukoplakia fading
- lichen sclerosis fading
- increased muscle mass
- better sleep
- feeling hungrier
- powerful neuotropic effect
- eyesight seems clearer (less to no floaters)
- no anxiety or depression
Yea so I am now 100% unconvinced of the whole low VA theory. I think they just have an inability to process VA due to deficiency or sluggish metabolism. I tend to agree with what @Amazoniac says about immune suppression which is what seems to be happening.
I think I burn through VA at an increasingly accelerated rate though because of my age and I’m finding that my acne comes back after a few days. I am having very small amounts of liver however (close to 40/50 grams every like 3 or 4 days). So it’s very possible that I can start increasing now to totally abolish my acne. I think riboflavin and biotin burn through VA very quickly.
Next is to find a good source of oysters for a more natural source of zinc. I know a fish shop I can go to so I’ll give it a shot.
My secret? Lamb liver. I also add it to dishes like curry for example which totally masks the taste and makes it taste really good. I’ve tried beef liver and it’s horrible (I was probably getting a bad source but lamb liver seems safer due to them being so young).
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Nice, seems that you're on the right track. I'd go low and slow on any new supplements that you may add in.
Good one with the lamb liver, some of us have gone to calf liver for the milder flavor, cooked on low heat/rare.
A few random thoughts aloud:
Peeled, chopped, soaked carrots have less carotenes. Carrots have an antifungal effect over the long haul. The scraping action, removal of old bile and hormone regulation are other more obvious bonuses.
As for the gelatinous/Glycine rich foods i commented on earlier. Even just boiling a bone; chicken, beef, lamb, in your homemade soups would provide benefit. It does not have to be cooked for hours or turned into a proper gelatinous bone broth, even a 45min to 1 hour low boil brings some benefit. Lamb & beefshanks, lamb and beef neckbones (excellent) chicken neck and other bones especially wingtips all make for decent oxtail replacements with the correct healing amino acids.
If tolerated then adding peeled and chopped potatoes will bring ketoacids which increase the soup's payload. It's also a healthier noodle substitute.
Pressure cookers are excellent, they provide the equivalent to a 3 hour boil in 45 minutes, saving both time and energy.
I don't recall you mentioning magnesium, very needed and many are deficient. If you try it then consider smaller doses twice a day to experiment. People seem to react differently to the various forms, something to keep in mind. I've cycled through many of them till i found the two types that i prefer.
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@BioEclectic what magnesium supplements do you use now?
I used thorne calcium and magnesium citrate one time before discovering ray peat
I got a magnesium glycinate and used it a handful of times but just cannont stand the fishy taste and smell to it.
I now use a magnesium chloride spray topically even though i saw haidut saying the absorption is likely low
Looking for recommendations, i really havent seen a differece or felt a change when using any of these though.
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@noseleather
Have you tried Haidut a brand? That stuff used to knock me out -
Noticing new effects from eggs. So my hands get very warm after eggs now. I think because I finally have adequate vitamin A stores now I am able to convert a lot more into steroid hormones. Muscles in my fore arm feel swole just 10 minutes after. Good stuff.
My vision seems to be improving.
Maxilla has moved forward (I think this is related to my vision as well)
Skin smoother
Mental patterns changing as well slightly. I feel less autistic and more outgoing but I’m also thinking a lot less like my brain just doesn’t want to think or maybe obsess over random crap anymore. Not sure if this is a sign of things getting better but it’s definitely a change. It feels like my head shape is more similar to what I remember it being like as a child, maybe I am reverting back to that child like state which is good.
Also experimenting with the occasional apple to clear bile Incase I have any toxins that need removed.
Was getting bad reactions from oats so I stopped them.
I think I am more sensitive to adrenaline now because I seem to notice it a lot more (maybe a sign that thyroid function is returning).
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@noseleather
Apologies, i recall typing a reply but must have never sent it.My Mag recommendations would be the common ones in split dose, two to three times a day ... this is in case you're one of those who do not retain magnesium, which can be slowly alleviated.
Mag oxide, gluconate, chloride, carbonate etc. I would start with your spray first, 2 or 3 times a day for a week or two to test. Be mindful of the doses you are taking though, add up the daily milligram amount, assume most of it is being absorbed to play it safe. It has chloride, be mindful of it's intake also. If you don't feel any benefit then slightly up the daily dose, but only to a point. You can always move onto another form of Mag at a later date.
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@Jakeandpace
As for the mental aspect, having moments where your head is clear along with less ruminating thought patterns is an improvement in my book. You'll monitor it's progression i'm sure.All in all it still sounds like a positive work in progress.
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I’d agree it’s an improvement. I realised I’m 100 fold more outgoing and can easily talk to people with feeling very little to no anxiety, it’s a very nice feeling that I’ve never really experienced before
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@Jakeandpace
i havent, i was a little sussed out with it using DMSO -
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@Jakeandpace How long were you doing Low Vitamin A?
Thanks for sharing. Came here from Brad's Twitter post about it
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Bout a month or 2.
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In recent days I have been supplementing Vitamin D at 5000IU per day and getting a lot of calcium in through milk and cheese and leafy greens.
I have noticed it seems to increase my metabolic rate a lot. My acne quickly returned and leukoplakia seems worse when I supplement D and eating liver only clears it up to an extent now. Is this a sign I need more liver/vitaminA or should I lay of the D for a while?
I think I need more zinc as well but I am awaiting an arrival of oysters as I'd rather not supplement.
If anyone has any insight on this it would be appreciated.
Also taking occasional small doses of Niacinamide and thiamine throughout the day.
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Feeling a lot less estrogenic. I feel as though prolactin and estrogen have plummeted for me. I no longer have any desire for porn, I looked at it a few days in a row and it did nothing for me so I just didn’t watch it. Instead I find myself wanting to seek real connection and thinking about long term goals and relationships. This is definetly a positive, you could say I was addicted to porn.
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Found some good food sources recently and continuing to improve.
Local Duck eggs, the yolk is about double the size of a regular egg and is a lot thicker and creamier. The white is about the same size.
Instead of having 2 eggs I instead have one due to the size of the yolk.
The quality of these eggs are far superior to any sort of chicken eggs I’ve found.White carrots. Recently found someone selling white carrots. It is very useful and helps to avoid any negative effects from the carotene in regular carrots.
Local honey, good stuff.
Amazing the effect that food can have. Quality eggs are kind of rare but so incredibly superior.
As of now I’m only taking D3. Dropped Niacinamide and thiamine because they gave me sort of weird mental effects like adhd as well as eye floaters and various things.
Also some k2 every once in a while.
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Been feeling a bit strange. Drinking too much alcohol lately. There is definitely some benefit in the social aspect and spontaneous nature of going out with friends but it definitely takes a toll as well.
A healthy balance should be found or find a way of socialising that doesn’t involve alcohol. In my country that is surprisingly difficult.
I have grown to love aspirin again. I think after getting the basics of diet down which involves plenty of calcium, carbs and gelatin (when available) the aspirin is finally having a profound effect. After getting many hot flash like symptoms the aspirin knocks it out and seemingly gives me chills, these chills are then followed about 30 minutes later by a radiating warmth all over my body.
I think the chills is my body heating up and hot flashes cooling down. Ray has mentioned this before and I find it to be true. When I get these ‘chills’ for like 20 minutes I notice my skin (body) becoming increasingly warm and once it has reached the peak my chills disappear and energy flows very very nicely. Love it.
Also been eating oysters, liver and learning to cook oxtails. I’ll hopefully get better at cooking with these foods.
