Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?

Hando-Jin

@Fructose said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

a liquid diet.

Yep, Ray's metabolic emergency diet of OJ and milk is a good option for people with gut disorders.

It's pretty drastic but people might need a multi pronged approach for stubborn gut stuff- diet as well as supplements.

Nabokov

Doxycycline is excellent, if it still doesn't work then gum turpentine to initiate the final solution

notmcas

Have you tried well cooked white button mushrooms with olive oil?

@skywxlker I lived with IBS, leaky gut, SIBO and also CFS for many years. All of these problems resolved for me via taking high dose thiamine. I uses thiamine hcl rather than TTFD because I couldn't tolerate the TTFD because my glutathione level was low because of high oxidative stress, which has also resolved via the high dose thiamine hcl.
suggested reading:
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/tag/sibo/
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-fibromyalgia-cfs-me-chronic-lyme-sibo/

skywxlker

@mostlylurking

interesting. I have high dosed TTFD and benfotiamine but never thiamine HCL. I will have to give it a try

skywxlker

@notmcas

never together but seperately yes. honestly that sounds quite horrid lol. maybe it's my gut taking though...

I have always disliked mushrooms. olive oil is good though.

@skywxlker Read through Dr. Costantini's information about the amount of oral thiamine hcl that is needed to equal one 100mg thiamine hcl injection. Because thiamine hcl's intestinal absorption rate is so low when taken orally, a much higher dose is needed than if taking TTFD or benfotiamine. I spent 4 months working up to my "optimum" dose (from 300-350 mg divided into 2 doses daily to 1 gram thiamine hcl 2Xday).

cornwallis

I too have been dealing with chronic gastrointestinal issues, and our symptoms are exactly the same. I'm currently on sabbatical and desperately need some symptom relief before returning to my professional work.

To achieve that, I'm preparing to self-treat with a two-week round of doxycycline at 50-100mg/day, administered concurrently with nystatin at 500,000 units/day; dosage and duration are subject to change based on my reaction to the drugs. I'll update this thread or another with my experience.

skywxlker

@mostlylurking thanks. will do.

I didn't know TTFD would tank glutathione. I did get benefits at first and I believe some of these benfits were even from the sulphur. But then things became stagnant. and increasing the dose didn't seem to do anything more but to raise my heart rate.

skywxlker

@cornwallis God speed brother.

How long have you had these issues and do you know if anything potentially triggered the onset?

Mine got worse after Peating for a year. I cut out kefir and starches, ate tons of simpler carbs. Then I caught covid 4 months ago and my issues became 10 out of 10 problematic.

@skywxlker said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

I didn't know TTFD would tank glutathione. I did get benefits at first and I believe some of these benfits were even from the sulphur. But then things became stagnant. and increasing the dose didn't seem to do anything more but to raise my heart rate.

I learned about the glutathione issue from Elliot Overton.

Elliot also mentions the glutathione issue in a video on youtube. In the video he suggests that if your glutathione level is low you can take thiamine hcl for a while to normalize your glutathione level. So I used thiamine hcl and within a few months, my glutathione level achieved normal levels for the first time in many years. I chose to stick with thiamine hcl as I do so well on it. My glutathione level had tanked many years ago because of my high oxidative stress caused by my mercury toxicity.

In addition to taking high dose thiamine hcl, I also take magnesium glycinate (3100mg, divided into 2 doses each day), niacinamide (100mg, 4Xday), and 100mg of riboflavin (100mg, 4Xday). Elliot Overton et.al. have said that magnesium is needed to work with thiamine. Elliot has also said that niacinamide and riboflavin also fill important rolls in the process.

Ray Peat on magnesium, written work
Ray Peat on magnesium, interviews
Ray Peat on niacinamide, written work
Ray Peat on niacinamide, interviews
Ray Peat on riboflavin, written work
Ray Peat on riboflavin, interviews

I was unable to tolerate higher doses (greater than 250mg) of magnesium glycinate until I was high dosing the thiamine hcl. Thiamine improves your tolerance for magnesium.

Here's more information about magnesium.

skywxlker

@mostlylurking thank you. this is very helpful.

I have been under lots of stress, I'm sure my glutathione is in poor status.

I also felt better using B2, and B3 along with thiamine. and I do feel that the thiamine threw off my Magnesium metabolism. I often don't know if I should take more or less.

@skywxlker said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

thank you. this is very helpful.

I have been under lots of stress, I'm sure my glutathione is in poor status.

I also felt better using B2, and B3 along with thiamine. and I do feel that the thiamine threw off my Magnesium metabolism. I often don't know if I should take more or less.

You're welcome.

I learned that I did better taking 100mg of niacinamide 4Xday than I do taking 200mg of niacinamide 2Xday. I take the same amount of riboflavin; 100mg, 2Xday. When I switched my habitual dosing of the niacinamide to the lower dose, more frequently something changed in my body function and I lost about 35 pounds in about 2 months. That weight had been packed on 2 years earlier, just after poisoning myself with Bactrim antibiotic; Bactrim is known to block thiamine function. Evidently lots of prescription drugs block thiamine function, including quite a few antibiotics.

Thiamine lowers oxidative stress:
"Regarding thiamine as a select antioxidant may be useful in terms of revealing the role of thiamine dependent processes in disease and other conditions that lead to altered neuronal function (Fig. 5). Overwhelming evidence indicates that oxidative stress accompanies neurodegeneration. Several lines of evidence suggest that thiamine homeostasis may reflect the oxidative state of cells. The reduction in thiamine-dependent enzymes in multiple neurodegenerative disorders may indicate that the cells "

also this article: The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue

About the magnesium: After taking high dose thiamine for a few weeks, I decided I should increase my magnesium. Normally, your body will tell you that you took more than you can tolerate by the appearance of diarrhea. However, that did not happen. My traveling chiropractor was at my house and I asked him how much magnesium glycinate I should be taking; I told him 5 grams were not causing me problems. He advised me to back it down to 3 grams/day, which equals to 400mg of magnesium. I buy my magnesium glycinate from purebulk.com; they have quite a bit of information about magnesium on their site including lots of links to studies. Their suggested dose is 3100mg. The info is below the product so scroll down to find it.

You will probably benefit from increasing your magnesium intake when you high dose thiamine because your body utilizes both of them together.

periander345

@mostlylurking I started taking 500 mg of Niacinamide once a day, a B-Complex with 50 mg Thiamine and 25mg Niacinamide, and 200mg of Benfotiamine. I cut out coffee because I realized I developed an intolerance to dosages of magnesium, so i've been trying to limit mag intake. But I wanted to ask if headaches and brain fog are a side effect of taking B vitamins, because I've had a consistent headache since I started supplementing, and more fatigue.

@periander345 said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

I started taking 500 mg of Niacinamide once a day, a B-Complex with 50 mg Thiamine and 25mg Niacinamide, and 200mg of Benfotiamine. I cut out coffee because I realized I developed an intolerance to dosages of magnesium, so i've been trying to limit mag intake. But I wanted to ask if headaches and brain fog are a side effect of taking B vitamins, because I've had a consistent headache since I started supplementing, and more fatigue.

Niacinamide is water soluble so it only sticks around for a couple of hours in your body. Taking small doses (90-100mg) multiple times a day would be of better benefit.
Ray Peat on Niacinamide
The thiamine in your B-complex is probably thiamine hcl; it does not get through the gut wall efficiently so higher doses are needed. Dr. Costantini on dosages for oral thiamine hcl vs thiamine hcl by injection. The benfotiamine does not have the absorption problem that the hcl type has but I do not know much about it as I've never taken it myself, sorry.

"I cut out coffee because I realized I developed an intolerance to dosages of magnesium, so i've been trying to limit mag intake."
Coffee blocks thiamine function so I don't drink it. Supplementing thiamine will improve tolerance for magnesium.

Magnesium is really important; addressing the intolerance would be more helpful than limiting magnesium intake.
about magnesium:
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

"But I wanted to ask if headaches and brain fog are a side effect of taking B vitamins, because I've had a consistent headache since I started supplementing, and more fatigue."

You may have an imbalance in what you are taking. I like to test out individual vitamins instead of taking a B-comlex because I find it easier to determine which one might be problematic.

Brain fog and fatigue were two of my symptoms when I had a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. High dose thiamine hcl resolved the problems for me.

I'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice.

@skywxlker Doxycycline worked fine for me, I was doing 100mg x2 a day for 5 days. Be careful though it can make you sick (nausea, dizziness,
excessive sweating, headache...) These side effects kicked in for me after 30 minutes of taking the pill, apparently tetracycline antibiotics can irritate the stomach, solution was to take before bed and sleep on it.

skywxlker

@mostlylurking thanks again. good to know. I just ordered some thiamin hcl.

while we're on the topic, should I pair thiamine with riboflavin?

I cant tell if its working or not, but riboflavin seems like something that would help me.

I do have light sensitivity and eye floaters. in my youth I had migraines, but I'm not sure.

my instict tells me to try B2 5p.

@skywxlker said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

thanks again. good to know. I just ordered some thiamin hcl.

while we're on the topic, should I pair thiamine with riboflavin?

I cant tell if its working or not, but riboflavin seems like something that would help me.

I do have light sensitivity and eye floaters. in my youth I had migraines, but I'm not sure.

my instict tells me to try B2 5p.

There's a lot to be said for intinct. Elliot Overton has recommended niacinamide and riboflavin to take when high dosing thiamine. Of course, I can't find the source now, sorry. I relied on what I learned from Ray Peat regarding the dosage. I take 100mg of each of them, 4Xday. Other sources recommend higher doses for the riboflavin, maybe. Ray Peat said that more people are sensitive to riboflavin supplementation, so there's that. So I guess you will have to do some experimentation on yourself to learn how you react to it.

Is the "5p" above a typo? Whazzat?

skywxlker

@mostlylurking alright. sounds good.

I'll update this post to see how things go. thanks again

riboflavin "5-phospate"

@skywxlker said in Which antibiotics for gut issues and chronic fatigue?:

riboflavin "5-phospate"

Eyedrops? Sorry, I'm not familiar with it. Although I have had more than my share of floaters....