How fast does progesterone reduce muscle mass and androgens?
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@risingfire
It's not just "maculinity". It looks deformed in some ways, like shoulders or other muscles sticking out, doesn't look healthy or natural. -
@waterbottle One small dose of steroids most likely did not do that to you. Was probably from something else
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@PrinceTrebata It's the most likely explanation. My doctor did many tests for androgen producing tumors, but it came up negative. So the androgen must have come from somewhere
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Anyone who has used progesterone and noticed muscles becoming smaller or other anti-androgenic effects?
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@waterbottle 1mg of any androgen one time would absolutely not cause any difference in muscle mass. did you increase your protein intake? Leucine can increase muscle protein synthesis
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@PrinceTrebata what else would it be because I want it!
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My shoulders and muscles stood out and popped more when I was peak peaty then on roids so its totally natural and healthy. Its peak male to have very popping shoulders compared to your enviromental stimulus. Now that look you got wasnt from natty peatyness (if story true) but since we are talking about the look I mention.
Here you can see picture of me peak peating before alot of stress:
https://i.imgur.com/9qSr6Qz.jpegMy muscles pop alot less now and now I am not natty 60% of the time nowadays.
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@Uncover the king is BACK.
same. when I reached my Peaty heights prior to a sustained year long stressor event I've been in, I was eating half a gallon of icecream a day (almost 2 liters)... my shoulders were definitely wider, and people would say "you're working out!" which I hadn't done in a year or two.
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@LetTheRedeemed Haha thanks for the nice welcome brother! Im suprised you recognised me. I have socialized with less peaty people recently so I am not as used to people remembering alot of prior conversations anymore haha
Haha thats fire when they comment such things. The fooked up thing is that when I was natural people thought I was on roids and when I am not natty anymore I still get those allegations less faak. I can imagine people thought you lied when you said you didnt workout
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@Uncover I actually remember you and your bodybuilder pics from the old forum
I can imagine people thought you lied when you said you didnt workout
Lol right? Itâs crazy what an impact the hormones have on structure alone. Clearly bones donât just grow and then shrink back that fast (yes muscles swell and that gives an impression); I believe that other than extreme cases of developmental retardation, the body is indeed making bones and tendons that are supposed to fit in an ideal frame, but that frame isnât being âhungâ correctly by connective tissues like fascia, due to stress hormone impacts. In these instances people are more prone to various joint injury. I forgot where Ray talked about it, but basically the tissues themselves are more resilient with high androgens, and weakened with stress hormones⊠and it was true for me that, when not in a stressed state, chiropractic work was largely unnecessary.
edit, more pertinent to my point, cortisol keeps muscles and tendons from relaxing -- they will also then not flex for full effect
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Decades ago Peat was wary of the anti testosterone effects of about pea- to beansized amounts of progest-E, but I don't think this applies anymore, in todays super stressed hyperesteogenic world. I noticed large amounts having androgenic effects by lowering the ratio of estrogen to testosterone. Maybe with 150-200mg I was starting to get numbness in the penis for some hours.
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@natureman Can you explain what androgenic effects you noticed from progesterone? So you are saying that up until 150 mg, you got androgenic effects, then higher you got some mild anti-androgenic effects? Numbness of the penis but no shrinking of the penis and testicles? What about muscles, beard, body hair, voice, hand and foot size? And you say the numbness only lasted hours, does it mean that any anti-androgenic effects wore off within hours even with that large dose, and there was no long-term changes?
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@waterbottle no shrinking, yes it went away after a few hours, maybe half a day. Deeper voice, leaner face overnight (reduced puffines), just relaxed and overall feeling well. Beardgrowth was always fast, never noticed it slowing down. Never got shrunken muscles or anything like that, never heard it could happen to be honest.
The amount is just an estimate, slowly building it up.
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@LetTheRedeemed No idea tbh. Most likely a combination of things that was slowly making changes, until the change was drastic enough that he noticed.
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I'm surprised that more people don't have experience with progesterone's anti-androgenic effects, like muscle reduction. On the old Ray Peat forum there were some discussions about it, a guy even mentioned that in just 4 days of using progesterone, there was a visible difference with shoulders becoming more flat (sticking less out).
