Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat

[sunsunsun]

@VehmicJuryman try replacing it with s. boulardii (florastor etc) . maybe it can out compete whatever yeast it is

[VehmicJuryman]

I know this is pretty basic for a Ray Peat forum but have you all tried consuming large amounts of coconut oil? I did some research on it, apparently it's more effective against fungus in vitro than antifungal drugs like fluconazole. It has a similar mechanism of action as antifungal drugs i.e. it targets the ergosterol in the fungal cell membranes. It's one of the most commonly mentioned natural candida remedies on forums like reddit. Popular anti-candida supplements like Now Candida Support contain caprylic acid which is abundant in and sourced from coconut oil. Coconuts evolved for their drupes to survive in humid tropical coastlines and to float on ocean currents so the fats are probably evolved to be resistant to fungi.

[yerrag]

@VehmicJuryman

The oral intake of coconut oil has the effect of getting the liver to metabolize coconut oil for energy. This leaves little of the antifungal components such as caprylic acid and lauric acid to be distributed by chyomicrons to the cells in the body.

To keep the,liver from metabolizing coconut oil, I have been using suppositories to deliver vco intact to the cells.

[CrumblingCookie]

These are interesting findings from studies IMO:

Blood-group influence on Candida/fungal colonization:
It exists and has a signficant impact. It comprises two main known factors:

No. 1:
The main groups A, B, 0, whereof 0 carries the greatest risk for (chronic) Candida infection. This is likely because type-0 cells show an L-fucose open end, to which Candida adhesins can preferably bind to.

Here's an Iranian study on this in healthy people without fungal diseases:

A comparative study of Candida albicans mean colony counts and blood group antigens in the saliva of healthy subjects, 2014


Tbh, I can't openly see why these stark differences from a sample size of 300 are not statistically significant.
However, the authors even point to a greater caveat and possibly much large impact:

According to the molecular studies conducted on the interactions between adhesin receptor and oral epithelial cell-surface antigens, we should expect that most of the C. albicans fungi in blood group O are attached to the oral epithelial cells and fewer free fungal cells are found in the saliva. Therefore, it seems that saliva collection methods alone are not sufficient to calculate the amount of fungal cells in the oral cavity.

No.2:
Being a secretor/non-secretor through as determined by the FUT2 gene.
A functional FUT2 gene allows people to secrete their blood group antigens (sugars) into mucosal fluids like saliva, gut mucus, and tears. Homozygous FUT2 mutations make for a non-secretor.
These free-floating blood group antigens in the mucus act as decoy receptors (sort of like free mannose for E.coli). If you don't have this peripheral shielding your mucosal cells bear the full brunt of the fungal exposure.

This one is from the U of Edinburgh:
Non-secretion of blood group antigens and susceptibility to infection by Candida species, 1989
This one from the U of Glasgow:
Blood group glycolipids as epithelial cell receptors for Candida albicans , 1996

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@Mauritio said:

In the 2nd week the benefits started fading. I seem to develope tolerance once again.

Wondering and curious about whether you are indeed developing tolerance via specific cytochrome upregulation or receptor downregulation.
Or whether your subjective benefits are exhausting some other pathway or regenerative substrate, like choline or calcium or anything.

[CrumblingCookie]

And I was looking for the answer on whether FMTs are a guarantor for clearance of fungal abundance in the small intestinal or colonic lumen.
Surprisingly, it's a no!
It appears to be even the other way round.

Here's something interesting IMO about FMTs:

Gut fungal dysbiosis correlates with reduced efficacy of fecal microbiota transplantation in Clostridium difficile infection, 2018
In this study, it is shown that CDI is strongly accompanied by over-representation of Candida albicans and decreased fungal diversity, richness, and evenness.
Post-FMT, successful responders lack their previous C. albicans dominance but rather display a high relative abundance of Saccharomyces and Aspergillus.
High abundance of C. albicans in donor stool also correlates with reduced FMT efficacy.
In essence, therefore, annihilation of Candida dominance in CDI patients is crucial for FMT success and arguable it could be much advisable to pre-/co-treat any CDI with antifungals along with either ABx or FMT.

Another study showed contrasting results of FMT on UC:
Fungal Trans-kingdom Dynamics Linked to Responsiveness to Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT) Therapy in Ulcerative Colitis, 2020
Herein they showed that in contrast to FMT in CDI, clinically successful response to FMT in UC very much depended on high Candida abundance at baseline, which decreased after FMT. The authors argue that the prior Candida dominance may provide a specific niche for bacterial engraftment, ameliorating UC.
So, the very opposite of the pre-conditions in CDI.
However, what the authors do not talk about in their text but what their graphs clearly show is the following caveat: UC patients with a low relative Candida abundance at baseline did not only not clinically benefit from the FMT, but their dysbiosis, inflammation and Candida levels post-FMT was mostly even larger than before (confounders? Small sample size?):
´

[Mauritio]

@CrumblingCookie said:

Wondering and curious about whether you are indeed developing tolerance via specific cytochrome upregulation or receptor downregulation.
Or whether your subjective benefits are exhausting some other pathway or regenerative substrate, like choline or calcium or anything.

Not sure. But I suspect its the liver becoming better at metabolizing it. Happens to me with many other supplements as well. Not caffeine though. So it seems to affect only cetain enzymes.
I'll try dandelion next.

Also finally found some good aged cascara, and it really does seem to be good for liver health.

[yerrag]

@Mauritio Dandelion root, one of the bitters, helped restore my liver's ability to conjugate or make bile. But I was also taking vco and taurine to help restore that ability.

I noticed my bowels were pale, and during that time, my skin was experiencing allergy. The pale color meant I don't have enough bile production to allow effective secretion of toxins fecally. And my skin became the alternative path for toxin clearance.

[Mauritio]

@yerrag Interestingly I can't find a single study showing cholagogue or choleretic effects of dandelion.

I took dandelion extract for the first time yesterday and it seems to be quite stimulating. Not sure if that was a one time only effect, but I found a study showing that it increases dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline.

"T. officinale extract exerts it effects by significantly (p<0.05) decreasing the levels of corticosterone and increasing the concentrations of dopamine, noradrenaline, and adrenaline. "
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6340315/

[yerrag]

@Mauritio

I am quoting Deepseek AI on the choleretic effects. I haven't been quite doing personal deep research lately ao here goes:

Yes, dandelion root (Taraxacum officinale) is widely recognized as having choleretic effects.

Here’s a breakdown of what that means in practice:

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How it works

Research, primarily in animal models, indicates that dandelion root extract can stimulate the liver to increase bile production. The effect is attributed to its bitter sesquiterpene lactones (like taraxacin) and other compounds. By increasing bile flow, it may help:

· Improve digestion of fats
· Gently relieve constipation linked to poor bile output
· Support the liver's natural detoxification pathways

The distinction you need to know

· Choleretic: Dandelion root is a choleretic — it increases bile production by the liver.
· Cholagogue: It is often also described as having mild cholagogue action — meaning it may also help stimulate the release of bile from the gallbladder.

Evidence and traditional use

· Traditional herbalism: It’s a classic "bitter" digestive tonic and liver herb, approved by the German Commission E (a respected herbal regulatory body) for dyspeptic complaints and disturbances in bile flow.
· Clinical research: Human clinical trials are limited, but animal studies and pharmacological reviews consistently support its choleretic activity.
· Caveat: Because it stimulates bile flow, it is contraindicated for people with blocked bile ducts, active gallstones causing symptoms, or acute gallbladder inflammation unless under professional supervision.

So, if you were connecting your previous queries — yes, the jump from the slang "cholalogic" to the real medical term "choleretic" leads directly here: dandelion root is one of the classic, evidence-backed examples.

[Mauritio]

@yerrag I am not doubting that it has these effects, I was just surprised that there isnt any studies on it (as opposed to gentian for example)

BTW I took it again today and the stimulating effects seem to be a lot less pronounced already.