Cheap peaty fruit suggestions
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What would be the most cost effective fruits to buy in large quantities? Idc if canned or fresh. I love strawberry, but wondering if there's others I should try. Canned peaches tase good but idk how well they digest
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Grapes maybe? I don't know how much they cost where you live. Apple sauce is also pretty cheap, unless you only want whole fruit. Tangerines are also relatively cheap (compared to other fruit)
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In your choices, mind fruits when taking high dose with acid (citrus fruits) (energy impact), seeds (grapes, strawberries, raspberries), histamine (citrus, pineapple, banana => H2), fructose (pear, fruit juice).
Not that you can't eat them but it must be compensated elsewhere or taken at some appropriate moment.
Try to find a balance between fructose and glucose. Target 50 g for each.
Need bicarbonate to balance citrus fruit; otherwise you're going to impact the bone skeleton. Rather potassium bicarbonate if you eat cheese and and manufactured food (high in sodium). No more than 1.2 g KHCO3, if on a regular base.
I'd balance with 200-250 mg Ca element when required (if no cheese or HD milk). Rather Ca citrate to avoid lithiasis. 0.6 g Ca citrate in a shake or water.
Note that high level citrate has an impact on platelet aggregation (blood fluidity) when taken on a regular base. -
Apples and pears are fairly cheap here and make delicious cider, however, bananas are the cheapest, calorie dense fruit and are quite versatile—I make nice cream, flourless pancakes and Bananas Foster with them. I just make sure that they’re extra ripe, i.e., spotty before eating so that they digest well. This is bare minimum ripeness, for me:
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I found I digest frozen sweet cherries very well. I just defrost them and then drizzle them in chocolate sauce and it makes a nice sweet bowl. Half the cost of fresh cherries normally and funnily they're probably picked when ripe whereas the fresh product is likely artificially ripened.
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@guy I like dates, pineapple, banana, raisins, clementines. I’ve been doing a pineapple juice and mix some other darker juice like grape, cherry, or pomegranate in it.
Honestly none of that is very Peaty, the quality sucks and the juice has ascorbic acid, but that’s what I can afford and it still beats having all my carbs in starches (for me)
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@BroJonas Wonderful suggestions and info from everyone. Thank you. I had a great response from eating pineapple today, so I will continue eating that.
@LucH said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
Try to find a balance between fructose and glucose.
Hmm, sugared strawberries have given me euphoria in the past, maybe it has something to do with the fructose/glucose being balanced?
@LucH said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
I'd balance with 200-250 mg Ca element when required (if no cheese or HD milk). Rather Ca citrate to avoid lithiasis. 0.6 g Ca citrate in a shake or water.
I've been supplementing calcium carbonate the past few days with good results - I find digesting large amounts of milk difficult.
Diet as of late:
-breakfast = Bran flakes w skim mlik, fruit, cup of OJ then lots of coffee with calcium carb + half/half and some sugar
-lunch/second meal = 2-3 eggs (raw usually), carrot salad, more coffee
-dinner = ground beef in gelatin broth --- cherry juice and/or ice cream before bed -
@guy said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
I've been supplementing calcium carbonate the past few days with good results - I find digesting large amounts of milk difficult.
Logical for milk: lack of lactase enzyme. The same for a lot of people. And we're not talking about intolerant ones because of a cross-reaction with WGA (agglutin from wheat).
Comments:
When your Ca carbonate supplement has been consumed, I’d take citrate.
Why?- No need to take it with foodstuff.
- Especially useful to capture / amalgamate oxalate (lithiasis / kidney stones).
=> Proportion 1/3 Ca citrate: if 600 mg Ox, 200 mg Ca.
NB: Calcium citrate is readily more absorbed than Ca carbonate: 33 % on average in the study below, provided you moderate the amount (150-250 Ca element) (1)
Magnesium keeps calcium dissolved in the blood (100 x less aggregated with Mg or K than with Ca). (2-3)
Sources & References
- Calcium absorption from all sources was estimated to be about 30 %.
The average absorption from CaCO3 (carbonate) was approximately 27% (13 to 40%), whereas that from calcium citrate malate was approximately 36% (27 to 53%). The average difference in absorption was approximately 10% between these two sources of calcium.
Reference: Calcium citrate malate as source for calcium. EFSA – Bioavailability of calcium from the source
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2007.612 ((pdf p 9-10) - Magnesium keeps calcium dissolved in the blood (100 x less aggregated with Mg or K than with Ca).
Magnesium prevents vascular calcification
doi: 10.1038/s41598-018-20241-3 2018. NIH
Magnesium reduced calcium and phosphate fractions of 68% and 41% extracellular crystals, respectively, without affecting the fraction of magnesium. This study demonstrates that magnesium inhibits hydroxyapatite formation in the extracellular space, thereby preventing calcification of vascular smooth muscle cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5794996/#:~:text=Magnesium reduced calcium and phosphate,of vascular smooth muscle cells.
NB: The normal pH of urine is 5.8. An acidic pH, around 5, promotes the formation of uric acid, cystine and calcium oxalate stones. Source: urofrance.org - “Magnesium is Key to Calcium Uptake” – The British Medical Journal. 2011
https://www.nutraceuticalsworld.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2011-09-14/magnesium-is-key-to-calcium-uptake/
Magnesium has a direct effect on the balance of other electrolytes, including sodium, calcium and potassium. - Calcium to magnesium ratios <1.7 and >2.8 can be detrimental, and optimal ratios may be ∼2.0.
BMS = bone mineral density.
Without the proper balance of magnesium to calcium, about a 2:1 ratio – according to the study I read – calcium ends up depositing in kidneys and can create kidney stones, in coronary arteries where it can lead to clogged arteries, and in joint cartilage, rather than in bones where we need it most. The more calcium taken without the balancing effect of magnesium, the more symptoms of magnesium deficiency and calcium excess you are liable to experience," Dr. Dean says.
- Higher risk can already be found when calciuria exceeds 150–200 mg/24 h [38,39].
=> Comment: Logical. So, don’t take high level of Ca in one take.
https://www.nutraceuticalsworld.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2011-09-14/magnesium-is-key-to-calcium-uptake/
- Low serum phosphate concentration was also proposed as a hypothetical cause of calcium nephrolithiasis [63].
=> Optimal ratio for P / Ca according to RP is 1 / 2.2 (like in milk); never go occasionally above twice more phosphate (when eating hard cheese + meat e.g., we need to compensate excess phosphorus). (6)
Target Ca Short answer
I target 850 mg Ca, as RP said. Optimal between 800 – 1200 mg. Never under 650 mg.
For me, keeping Ca/P ratio under 2 should be closely targeted. Nice objective to reach to keep PTH under control.
I can give a link if desired if you want more details about ratios and absorption. - Epidemiological data from observational studies are conflictive.
=> As long you don’t take the right criteria, it won’t match.
According to my reading & perception:
Supplementing 500 mg Ca citrate (not carbonate) in 2 takes (2 x 21% = 105 Ca element x 2) is optimal, provided you don’t lack magnesium. If needed, Mg bisglycinate or taurate, with a meal or a snack. (6) The percentage of absorption is dose-dependent. So, small doses, 2x or 3x/d would be optimal, whenever you’re under 850 mg Ca, to reach this level. Adapt the posology. - Interaction between liposoluble vitamins A D3 K2
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t127-interaction-entre-les-vitamines-liposolubles#889
*) Useful link: Optimiser l'assimilation du calcium en supplément
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1935-optimiser-l-assimilation-du-calcium-en-supplement#27328
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@LucH said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
When your Ca carbonate supplement has been consumed, I’d take citrate.
Ok cool, almost finished my ca carbonate. I will look into citrate once gone.
Also very good to know about the magnesium to calcium ratio. I take 350mg magnesium carbonate before bed every night, if I keep supplementing over a gram of calcium like I have the past few days maybe I should up the mag as well?
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@guy said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
maybe I should up the mag as well?
Well, if it Mg bisglycinate, it would be fine. Why?
- impact on brain (gaba-like effects): restful / relaxing. 2.5 g Mg bisglycinate is my dose, often split in 2 takes. Best with meal but OK if alone.
- one of the 2 or 3 best forms. I can give a link if needed.
keep in mind that there is interaction between P and Mg.
As already mentioned:
Optimal ratio for P / Ca according to RP is 1 / 2.2 (like in milk). Never go occasionally above twice more phosphate.
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@LucH ok thank you. My takeaways from this:
-Up my magnesium intake so it's 2:1 in relation to my calcium supp.
-Switch to magnesium bisglycinate
-Switch to calcium citrate-Don't take huge calcium doses at a time.
Question: I have a big bag of magnesium carbonate, is it still effective at helping calcium absorption? Should I just switch to mag bisglycinate immediately?
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guy said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
Question: I have a big bag of magnesium carbonate, is it still effective at helping calcium absorption? Should I just switch to mag bisglycinate immediately?
Keep it and alternate. But if sleep and mood are targeted, it is worth changing for bisglycinate.
Carbonate before sleep is useless since it needs food. -
@guy said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
@LucH said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
When your Ca carbonate supplement has been consumed, I’d take citrate.
Ok cool, almost finished my ca carbonate. I will look into citrate once gone.
I don't know whether citrate has any benefits over carbonate (other than the increased bioavailability), but if you mix carbonate into orange juice, it should react with the citric acid in the juice to form calcium citrate.
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@Luke said in Cheap peaty fruit suggestions:
I don't know whether citrate has any benefits over carbonate (other than the increased bioavailability), but if you mix carbonate into orange juice, it should react with the citric acid in the juice to form calcium citrate.
Yes, I confirm:
What happens when citric acid reacts with calcium carbonate?
3CaCO3 + 2H3C6H5O7 -> Ca3(C6H5O7)2 + 3H2O + 3CO2
When calcium carbonate (CaCO3) reacts with citric acid C6H8O7, calcium citrate is formed Ca3(C6H5O7)2 + water (H2O) and Gas (CO2) (carbonic gas). It is an acid-base reaction.
If you put calcium carbonate or calcium citrate in fruit juice, it’s going to become fizzy. The production of carbon dioxide gas typically results in bubbling or fizzing during the reaction.
It can also be called a chelated reaction since an insoluble salt of calcium (calcium carbonate) is converted into a more soluble one (calcium citrate). Calcium citrate is rather a water-soluble salt.Comment:
How much citrate?
It depends on the ratio acid citric and carbonate. I don't know precisely but the effect is no quite immediate. Lightly delayed. Not a good idea if your eat pasta / bread / flakes 3 times a day since WGA agglutins (from wheat) are opening the tight junctions of the intestinal border brush.
Here I make an analogy with magnesium supplement when suffering from leaky gut. Not the right time to take Mg supplement during a meal with oxalates when tight junctions are not very tight. Too long / difficult too explain why.
However, the organism is repairing itself during the night. Theoretically, if we don't abuse regularly.
NB: other benefit:
Magnesium citrate or potassium citrate capture / solubilize CaOx on a much easier way (100x more easier than calcium citrate salts). Once you've suffered from lithiasis (kidney stone, but not only in kidneys), you'll take it quickly into account.
