Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard
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no particular side effects from Nizoral or Miconazole
at the moment I am experimenting with a water soluble version of vitamin A and water soluble vitamin D
they are sold as micellised vitamin A/D
the vitamin a should reduce sebum/acne/dead skin on the scalp
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This says diclofenac is used for actinic keratosis
wouldn't topical retinol be much safer and normal to solve the same thing
even topical tretinoin could be helpful
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy What sides did you get with Nizoral? I tried it for a month and it was fine. I even used it way more often than people say to (once per week, I sometimes did 2-3). No issues. Going to try it again because I think it did help increase growth.
The best way to describe it is that I feel drugged and am off. I have varying degrees of malaise, from being just functional to basically incapacitated. I've shared ad nauseam my sensitivities to supplements, but it's true. I just can't take a thing. And yet, here I cam considering this diclofenac gel.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
no particular side effects from Nizoral or Miconazole
at the moment I am experimenting with a water soluble version of vitamin A and water soluble vitamin D
they are sold as micellised vitamin A/D
the vitamin a should reduce sebum/acne/dead skin on the scalp
That leads me to think then that diclofenac would wipe me out, if you get no sides from Nizoral and Miconazole, but do get them from diclofenac.
I'm tried topical vitamin A (Haidut's) and vitamin D (Haidut's and other brands). Can't sustain any regimen, due to sides. I think at this point I'm just toying with myself that I'll be able to use diclofenac. Even so, I won't wholly count it out yet.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
This says diclofenac is used for actinic keratosis
wouldn't topical retinol be much safer and normal to solve the same thing
even topical tretinoin could be helpful
I think you could argue that, being that those are not drugs. I wonder if retinol goes systemic when used topically? My friend, whose father is a dermatologist, used Retin-A religiously, on his face and forehead, and he has all of his hair at late middle age. Though, it is all gray.
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@Mossy tretinoin isn't a systematic drug so should be okay
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9115052/
https://www.medicaljournals.se/acta/download/10.1080/00015550118916/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1829464/
It should reduce sebum and force your scalp to generate new skin,
But it all depends on what you think is the cause of balding
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@Mossy Yeah, makes me reconsider trying it. Also in that hairloss talk thread, someone said a bunch of people tried it and it wasn't that great. Who knows how they did it or if they were consistent.
I might actually just skip trying this one.
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I started my experiment this morning on 2 small bald spots in my beard.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy tretinoin isn't a systematic drug so should be okay
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9115052/
https://www.medicaljournals.se/acta/download/10.1080/00015550118916/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1829464/
It should reduce sebum and force your scalp to generate new skin,
But it all depends on what you think is the cause of balding
Thank you for this info.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy tretinoin isn't a systematic drug so should be okay
Wrong. Tretinoin does cause systemic adverse effects. Which can be even long-lasting.
They are simply not publicly acknowledged.
I can't provide the specifics anymore as I once must have written them on paper or tried to remember them in my head. It's not a good ingredient to use IMO. -
@wester130 What % of glycolic acid are you using?
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After some additional research, I'm going to have to count out taking Diclofenac gel for now, based on potential severe stomach issues, such as ulcers and deterioration of the lining.
If I understand these posts correctly, some users of Diclofenac take an additional supplement or drug to counter the lining deterioration, ulcer issue. That seems like a tightrope that would be hard to walk, getting the balance just right. At least for someone highly susceptible to side effects.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/bn7a7z/comment/en3g3zc/
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@tubert 20% is enough to dissolve the top layer of skin
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@wester130 thx! I have that at home, but how long do you leave it on for? I used to use, but after 5 or so minutes my scalp was on fire. So I wasn't sure if thstcwas such a good thing
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@tubert persoanlly i can leave it on overnight but Vitamin A and retinol products may be better to remove old collagen
idealabs sell a Vitamin A product in alcohol so it's not as greasy
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@wester130 ok, thanks for the info! It may be that my scalp just needs to get used to the acid
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actually this has made me reconsider diclofenac
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/diclofenac-gel-oil-prepared-iontoforesis-photos.91503/
in hindsight, When I used diclofenac I used a spray bottle with mint essence, maybe that's what I was reacting to
I may try voltarol gel instead
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That does make me reconsider trying it. Impressive.
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what part of diclofenec causes the growth?
is it the suppression of tgfb-1? just a guess
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@wester130 Powerful anti-inflammatory action. Whatever is going on in the scalp that causes the inflammation, it reduces that inflammation effectively, and allows hair to grow again. Could be the lowering of pgd2.
This post from a thread on hairlosstalk seems to hit the nail on the head
If you look at the mechanism of action, it inhibits cox as most NSAIDs. Means it lowers also the beneficial pge1, pge2 and pgf2a. However bald scalp mostly expresses pgd2 and low pge2, makes sense that there is overall a beneficial effect. Story changes probably once you want actual regrowth, and are already taking finasteride/dutasteride/ru etc and also start more targeting of that pathway (crth2 inhibitors, pge2, pgf2a analogues...). I guess one could in fact try diclo plus topical pge analgues (you probably at least want pge2 analogue plus castor oil and in addition some potent pgf2a like chloprostenol) to avoid this issue and save some money on seti etc (and avoid the non-responder issue with crth2i therapy). I also would avoid diclo while woundling, as inflammation triggers the growthfactors which makes it even less practical as pgd2 and crth2 inhibit wound induced hf neogenesis.
I bet pairing it with castor oil taken orally would be a powerful combination.
The ricinoleic acid in castor oil is a potent pge2 agonist, it stimulates pge2, and potentially has an antagonizing effect with pgd2. Pge2 promotes relaxtion of tissues, pgd2 promotes constriction of tissues.
Good video from More Plates More Dates on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnK9bX5TLMSo you lower the high balding scalp levels of pgd2 with the Diclofenac gel, then take castor oil to promote pge2, and get even more pgd2 antagonist action.
