Random, interesting studies
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Low-grade metabolic acidosis as a driver of chronic disease: a 21st century public health crisis, 2021
This one is the most concise overview on bicarbonate and acid-base balance I have got to see.
•Why do humans accumulate acid in the body?
•Where does dietary acid come from?
•Box 1. Ways to test for low-grade metabolic acidosis
•Four main mechanisms that compensate for chronic latent metabolic acidosis
•Box 2. The harms of low-grade metabolic acidosis
•Figure :1
•SummaryAlso, so many people only dabble with some sodium bicarbonate here and there, but in sports science it has been well proven that an HCO3- plasma increase of about 5mmol/L will substantially improve stamina and extension of peak performance.
The way to achieve such an increase is 225mg/kg BW NaHCO3 if it's enteric-coated, or 300mg if not.
That's a profound ~20g of NaHCO3 per day at a single time. Instead of the 1-5g rookie numbers so commonly making their round.
Obviously such a 20g dose contains about 6g of Na. It's ought to be better to make KHCO3 and or Ca/Mg carbonates dominate for long-term daily use. *****
The enterically-coated is superior in that it's essentially absent of side effects:Serial intake over more than one day even increases anaerobic metabolic capacity per se:
And of possible(likely!) interest to everyone with digestion issues, SIBO, malabsorption etc. are
the crucial findings that pancreatic bicarbonate secretion is directly dependent (and proportional to iirc) on plasma bicarbonate levels.A single, full-on pancreatic secretion makes use of ~13mmol HCO3- (equivalent to 1g NaHCO3) and lowers the plasma bicarbonate concentration by a substantial 1-5mmol/L.
Secretin-induced plasma bicarbonate decrease as a simple indicator of exocrine pancreatic function
And for those who lack pancreatic enzyme secretion, who are required to take them exogenously,
or also for those with sufficient pancreatic enzymes but nevertheless lack of digestive power because of their failing enzyme activity:
Addition of bicarbonate (670mg, rather conservative) with pancreatic enzymes to a test meal is able to increase fat absorption by up to ~3 times in chronic pancreatitis:
° Replacing the sodium bicarbonate in parts with KHCO3, MgO or MgCO3 and CaCO3: Lets do some basic maths.
•500mg MgCO3 (160mg Mg) would replace the buffering capacity of 833mg NaHCO3. Some peeps can easily take twice that per day, i.e 1000mg MgCO3 (320mg Mg), replacing 1666mg NaHCO3.
•500mg MgO (300mg Mg) would replace 875mg NaHCO3.
•500mg CaCO3 (200mg Ca) would replace 417mg NaHCO3. But an appropriate daily amount could be ~3x (or 4-5x) this, i.e. 1500mg CaCO3 (600mg Ca), replacing 1250mg NaHCO3.1500mg CaCO3 (600mg Ca) and 1000mg MgCO3 (320mg Mg) per day would therefore replace the buffering capacity of just 2.9g of sodium bicarbonate. Which is 34.5 mEq.
Which looks like a solid base level on paper for the long term but still lacks the punch to make up for another 17g of NaHCO3.Could we take 1g of NaHCO3 (about 274mg Na) and KHCO3 for the rest, i.e. 19g KHCO3 (about 7420mg K)?
Just make sure we still get sufficient dietary chloride.
Although, if taken over the long term I can't believe we'd really need / benefit from such extra 238 mEq from 20g NaHCO3. It seems waaaay too generous when looking at the balance from study at the top. even when considering a grain- or cheese- and protein-rich ketogenic diet.If we cut that down to 1g NaHCO3 (274mg Na), 10g KHCO3 (3900mg K), 1.5g CaCO3, 1g MgCO3,
that would be the equivalent of 15.7g sodium bicarbonate (187mEq).
That still looks generous but may be well suited to buffer extra lactate in high-intensity sports without adaptation to large sodium doses or the intermittent sodium-induced water retention ping-pong on the day after.
Seriously, there should be more studies on long-term dose finding.
The max dose long-term I could find was ~6g/day NaHCO3 in kidney patients: Which works out very well and to much benefit.
However, I'm thinking that's probably the range of dose which many people could benefit from long before they proceed to kidney damage, sarcopenia, osteoporosis, diabetes etc. -
In an effort to reduce cost, do you feel there is a way to avoid negative side effects with baking soda, versus buying the more expensive enteric sodium bicarbonate in supplement form?
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Sorry, but I'm lost in chemistry.
I make my own electrolyte drink by dissolving a couple of teaspoons of the ingredients below in one litre of water.
• potassium bicarbonate (KHCO₃) = potash
• sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO₃) = baking soda
• magnesium sulfate (MgSO₄) = epsom salt
• iodised table salt (99.9% NaCl + iodione as potassium iodate)I have no other sources of iodine than table salt, and I probably get too much salt even though it doesn't actually taste too salty. (one can get used to a lot)
There is much fuss about baking soda, but does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
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@Mossy Good question. There appears to be a way to embed the Na or K bicarbonate in a stomach-acid-resistant hydrogel.
Can you find out how they're using the listed ingredients to obtain an effective hydrogel in the Maurten Bicarb system? They use Maltodextrin, Fructose, Modified starch, Hydroxypropyl cellulose, Magnesium stearate, Xanthan gum to bind the sodium bicarb.Filling capsules really takes its time when those acid-resistant caps don't come as separated halves but must be pulled apart one by one before placing them in the capsule filler trays.
I have scoured the interwebs and found that buying sodium bicarb supplements in excipient-free, stomach-acid-resistant HPMC+gellan or HPMC-pectin capsules can cost "as little" as the same quantity of empty enteric capsules for a capsule filler at home.
But there are no sellers for KHCO3 capsules at all because of that annoying ban on anything above 100mg K in supplements. I'm therefore hovering on the thought of buying more HPMC+gellan capsules to fill at home.@Ena said:
does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
By what I know it doesn't matter and one can choose whatever form of (bi)carbonate one prefers!
Honestly, the whole kidney function explanations keep confusing me.What I've kept is that a solid amount of aldosterone benefits bicarbonate retention. Therefore reasonably low amounts of sodium should indeed be better for higher bicarbonate retention, I guess?
That would also mean that the ARBs, Angiotensin Receptor Blocker medications (and the ACE inhibitors to a degree as well), bear the potential to significantly screw with bicarbonate balance because of their aldosterone suppression. That alone is a large group of people. -
@Ena said in Random, interesting studies:
There is much fuss about baking soda, but does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
Yes, yes. Skip the baking soda. Short-term studies on healthy athletes using baking soda (NaHCO₃) do not address long-term health and longevity.
Dietary sodium is hoarded by our bodies and we tend to waste potassium. The ratio of sodium/potassium in our diet is important for blood pressure, insulin resistence, osteoporosis, diabetes mellitus, coronary artery disease and other diseases that occur as we get older. Read the details in The High Blood Pressure Solution: A Scientifically Proven Program for Preventing Strokes and Heart Disease (pdf)
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@DavidPS
Interesting book!- In contrast, dry cows (those not producing milk) or beef steers are
equally healthy whether or not they are given supplemental salt,7 and the
same is true for other domestic animals.8 And although wild herbivores
such as deer have been reputed to travel great distances to go to natural salt
licks, it is difficult to substantiate this belief. For example, Dr. A. R. Patton
analyzed mud sent in by forest rangers from areas in the Montana Rockies
where wild animals congregate to lick the soil. The rangers called these
sites salt licks, but Dr. Patton did not find sodium in any of the mud
samples. What he did find, however, was iodine,9 an element needed to
make thyroid hormone.*
- the total of the sodium plus the potassium inside the cell is constant:
Na + K = constant
The reasons for this have to do with the laws of physics and are outlined
in Chapter 4. Here’s the bottom line: It is impossible to lower sodium inside
the cell without replacing it with potassium. That’s why these two
substances are intimately linked in an inescapable balance. A low sodium
diet can’t possibly work unless it contains enough potassium to replace the
sodium inside the body’s cells.
- In contrast, dry cows (those not producing milk) or beef steers are
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@CrumblingCookie said in Random, interesting studies:
I have scoured the interwebs and found that buying sodium bicarb supplements in excipient-free, stomach-acid-resistant HPMC+gellan or HPMC-pectin capsules can cost "as little" as the same quantity of empty enteric capsules for a capsule filler at home.
Great info. Thank you!
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[bicarbonate of potassium or sodium]
Thanks @DavidPS and @CrumblingCookie.
I'll skip the baking soda from now on ... -
@dapose said in Random, interesting studies:
I’m using Boswellia every night before bed with baking soda and glycine water. Most consistent vivid dreams I’ve had as an adult!
It’s a COX enzyme blocker, very good anti inflammatory for me.Nice! Do you notice any hormonal or metabolic effects from it ?
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@mossy @ena
Enteric HPMC+gellan capsules work well for encapsulating bicarbonate.
The pectin coating of enteric HPMC+pectin capsules, however, reacts with (potassium) bicarbonate, discolours it and their purpose of reliable stomach-resistance fails. I've found that out myself. Don't use the capsules with pectin-coating.
