DHT Enanthate
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DHT is not very orally bioavailable. I guess you could dissolve it in tocopherols or DMSO but the former can be difficult. It's not very soluble in tocopherols. A few forum members have had difficulties with dissolving it in vitamin E.
Maybe sublingual in DMSO is the best bet.
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@jamezb46 The issue isn't that DHT is insoluble in tocopherol, but rather that people are either using the wrong solvent or brewing it incorrectly. I’ve successfully dissolved DHEA, progesterone, and exemestane at 300 mg/ml in a mixed tocopherol solution at a 30% concentration, multiple times, with ease. There was no undissolved particles when I looked through the glass, and shining a light through it exposed no further undissolved particles.
Tocopherol is likely the most effective solvent for dissolving unesterified steroids. However, it is also the most challenging to use. First, you need to determine the exact amount of tocopherol in milligrams and oil and use an appropriate amount of steroid. Second, it requires significant heating beforehand to properly mix the steroids. Additionally, you’ll need to reheat it during subsequent steps to ensure everything dissolves thoroughly.
Simply throwing a random amount of DHT powder in a "tocopherol" oil, which a lot of the time has a low amount of vitamin E inside it, and throwing it in the microwave until it gets hot, won't work.
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@jamezb46 Just spoke to a friend that dissolved 10% DHT in a solution that was 51% tocopherol 49% olive oil( Vitamin E "Oil" from NOW. has 510mg of alpha-tocopherol per 1ml).
I might add since he was able to dissolve 100mg in per 510mg of alpha tocopherol, it is more like a 20% solution excluding the olive oil (which DHT is not soluble in)
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@jamezb46 I successfully dissolved 2250mg of DHT in 30 milliliters of d alpha-tocopherol (at 1,000 IU/mL). However, I added around 8 mL of olive oil for its oleic acid content which is necessary for chylomicron transport of the hormone. This brought the concentration from 75mg/mL to 65mg/mL. Based on Ray's patent and his 3.5:9 ratio of fat to alpha-tocopherol, I speculate the ratio (in mg not mL) of hormone to alpha-tocopherol to oleic acid could range from 1:9:1 to 1:9:5. Finding the least amount of oleic acid required is the next thing I am going to test through trial and error.
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@dht how much dht is that per drop?
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@BeamsOfEnergy From my experience, you need to weigh the drop on a milligram scale while knowing the mass stoichiometry of the solution and calculate like that. Using approximate volume of a drop is not accurate.
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@jamezb46 Most milligram scales aren't accurate when measuring single-digit milligram weights; and even then, the size of drops varies, therefore, a mean has to be taken to calculate the average size of a drop.
And if you use the mean value to say how much a drop is then it is automatically an approximate figure. So, unfortunately, using an approximate figure is the only way to guess how much you are taking based off of drops.
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Yes that’s true, but it can be an average of averages.
For example: trial 1 is the average weight of 10 drops,
Trial 2 is the average weight of 10 new drops,
etc. then the final estimate for average is the average of each n trials.
Although this obviously isn’t perfect, it’s the best we can do without lab equipment
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@Crypt-Keeper I don't think it is that simple. The rapid peaks of base DHT saturates 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD enzymes which leads to immediate conversion to the inactive metabolites. DHT Enanthates esterification leads to a slower release into the bloodstream, reducing the peak concentration, prolonging the duration and increasing free DHT levels. This slower release means 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD enzymes are not overwhelmed with a large bolus of DHT at once, which would rapidly convert into the inactive metabolites. Instead the steady release allows DHT to remain active longer, as the enzymes are not as quickly saturated, leading to a higher free hormone level and a greater androgenic effect on tissues compared to the base form. Essentially the ester out competes the inactivation of DHT which is probably why these body re compositions are not being achieved on high doses of base DHT dissolved in either DMSO or Tocopherol.
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@dht there are studies showing that different esters of the same base compound behave (sometimes significantly) differently. Many anecdotal reports confirming this too. E.g.Test Undeconate doesn't lead to side effects like Test cyp, deca is more anabolic than NPP, etc. For the deca vs. npp comparison there is actual data showing that even when blood levels are matched via dosing schedules (giving NPP more frequently in smaller doses to match the stable blood levels of deca), that deca still gives more nitrogen retention.
you saying DHT-e is more androgenic than base DHT goes against the anecdotal notions, tho. I'd assume it'd be more anabolic and less androgenic to use dht-e until reading your explanation. yet we are talking about dht which is the androgenic hormone so what your'e saying does make sense.
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Despite the limitations of base DHT and its duration of action on tissues, I have personally seen results from using it. Over weeks of experimentation I've experienced crashed estrogen, increased magnetism, measurable penis growth and reversal of some pre-existing gyno. However achieving the physical results required applying high doses topically and ingesting even higher doses. I believe including an estrogen precursor like Testosterone or DHEA at ratios to be experimented with, would help even if the user was on DHT Enanthate with crashed e2.
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@dht are you the guy from twitter who posts his physique and workout clips and about dht?
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@sushi_is_cringe nope just somebody very interested in DHT.
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@dht DHT is pure hype when it comes to cosmetic purposes. If DHT had any cosmetic benefit, then at least one of the thousands of studies performed on DHT, would of shown it. But I have yet to see a single study showing any cosmetic benefit of DHT. I would stop showing interest in it, it's not a golden bullet, or a well-kept secret, but rather a hype train.
The guy behind the hype is also on testosterone as well.https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/162/6/bqab045/6155679
"Testosterone Reduces Body Fat in Male Mice by Stimulation of Physical Activity Via Extrahypothalamic ERα Signaling...Testosterone but not dihydrotestosterone decreases fat mass in obese hypogonadal male mice
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741268/
"DHT treatment resulted in obesity, associated with reduced energy expenditure and fat oxidation. "
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1344622399800194
"In respiratory parameters, expired CO2 gas decreased significantly in the hormone-treated rats"
If you are going to reply with some anecdotal something, please don't. Not trying to be rude, but we should skip the talk and share studies instead, in order to hopefully dismiss these studies showing DHT having negative cosmetic effects, as I want DHT to have cosmetic purposes as much as the next person.
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@alfredoolivas And from that study:
In conclusion, our work demonstrates that the fat-burning action of T is dependent on aromatization into estrogens and is at least partially mediated by the stimulation of physical activity via extrahypothalamic ERα signaling.
That definitely won't go over well with some in this community that insist that estrogen is the enemy and DHT is good because it supposedly crashes it.
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@Crypt-Keeper Well whether estrogen is good or not, is up for debate, but for certain, estrogen is responsible for the fat loss properties of androgens. Everyone, not just people on this forum say, "estrogen is the fattening, pregnancy hormone!". Well show me a study of an aromatase inhibitor reversing obesity? I will wait!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938479900453
"Treatment of castrated male rats with low doses of testosterone propionate (TP; 0.2 mg/day) increases food intake and body weight gain, but long-term treatment with a higher dose of TP (1 mg/day) reduces body weight gain and carcass fat content. Concurrent treatment with androsta-1,4,6-triene-3, 17-dione (ATD), which blocks the aromatization of androgens to estrogens, prevents the weight-reducing effects of high doses of TP. "
So basically this studied showed that, if you allow T to only turn into DHT instead of E + DHT, via blocking the aromatase enzyme, fat is gained.
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@alfredoolivas I wasn't advocating for the use of DHT without an estrogen precursor. The few people hyping up DHT Enanthate on twitter are using exogenous T and E2 alongside DHT.
https://x.com/BenWestgate_/status/1838407090739589474
https://x.com/solothesensei/status/1878763267038105872
https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1886096759832641778
Whether if it is just "hype" or not, estered hormones are going to out perform non estered hormones in its effects every single time.
I don't think it is that simple. The rapid peaks of base DHT saturates 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD enzymes which leads to immediate conversion to the inactive metabolites. DHT Enanthates esterification leads to a slower release into the bloodstream, reducing the peak concentration, prolonging the duration and increasing free DHT levels. This slower release means 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD enzymes are not overwhelmed with a large bolus of DHT at once, which would rapidly convert into the inactive metabolites. Instead the steady release allows DHT to remain active longer, as the enzymes are not as quickly saturated, leading to a higher free hormone level and a greater androgenic effect on tissues compared to the base form. Essentially the ester out competes the inactivation of DHT which is probably why these body re compositions are not being achieved on high doses of base DHT dissolved in either DMSO or Tocopherol.
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@dht said in DHT Enanthate:
The few people hyping up DHT Enanthate on twitter are using exogenous T and E2 alongside DHT.
Are there any good semi-legal-ish sources of E2? I'm definitely deficient and it's just awful.