The ‘Fall’ of man from a new perspective.
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@wester130 said in The ‘Fall’ of man from a new perspective.:
David Icke
This man is afflicted. Turn accordingly.
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@sushi_is_cringe said in The ‘Fall’ of man from a new perspective.:
at the risk of sounding insistent again, myself, and maybe someone can think of how to express this without coming across as insistent as the dominant worldview, the universe presents itself to the viewer as they see fit. there's a word that hasn't been made up or im unaware of it at this time to describe this concept.
What's wrong with perspective. It changes when you move. I recommend a straight line down the middle.
everyone can get what they choose.
Don't forget the consequences. Life is strange.
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@ThinPicking to some there are few sights more distressing than that of an Englishman with a baseball cap
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I'd say holy shit if there wasn't a playlist behind me.
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@wester130
I would ignore Lizard Man Icke.The serpent was long a symbol for the Sun ("Apep" / Apophis in Egypt/Greece). The analemma traces a figure 8 in the sky every 1 year. The snake is born in an egg and sheds its skin. The very old Persian new year is the Spring Equinox. The crucifixion is also Moses's serpent and staff (wood). Christmas is at the darkest time of the year when the Sun is "reborn." The second "rebirthing" is when the Sun is realigned with Earth's equator in Spring (also in Fall; All Soul's Day / month?).
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
This refers to Psalm 22:1
To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
These are the dying words of Jesus. But, Psalm 22:6 has this:
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
The Hebrew word used for "worm" is tola and refers to a crimson worm. It is also suggested as referring to a snake, caterpillar, etc.
This site suggests it is the cochineal worm. https://www.hebraic-heritage.org/post/the-scarlet-worm
Jesus is said to be wearing crimson or purple Roman robes as a form of mockery. Maybe the New Testament should be read in light of Psalm 22 - plenty of connections there.
Tyrian purple comes from various sea snails from Tyre. Maybe this snail is a "worm" identified with the crimson robes.
Armenian "oriental" carpets get their red color from the Armenian cochineal, a worm-like insect found in the historical Armenian highland area. They are used to dye carpets (and other cloth) deep red. It has been suggested early Armenian or other peoples in that geography were "river" people, using the rivers to trade with Egypt. The old Armenian word for river is "ur / ar / iur," so "Ar"menia is "people of the rivers."
The fertile crescent was the Levant -> Tigris and Euphrates Rivers whose headwaters are in the Armenian highland area, present day Turkey. I think maybe this is of interest too - Armenia is the first country to officially become Christian in about 300. Strange considering Islam was "nationalized" rapidly and Judaism may have been as young as the 300s BC. Either way I find it interesting that Rome-as-a-sea snail and Armenia-as-a-worm both fulfill the purple/red color, the worm, and the outsider-goyim/non-Jewish/Edomite.
Isaiah 63:Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
The savior wears red/purple.
From ai reader:
Moses was instructed by God to create a bronze serpent and mount it on a pole to heal the Israelites who had been bitten by poisonous snakes. This event is described in Numbers 21:6-9, where God sent serpents among the people after they complained about their journey, and many died from the bites.
Num 21:8
8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
Bronze snake? Golden calf? Agnus Dei? Crimson worm?
Fallenness from this view is Israelites bitten by the snakes (false prophets? darkness?). Moses is the true prophet identified with the bronze snake. Apep or the Sun has a dark half in the winter and a light half in summer. I'm guessing this is part of the duality of the Hermetic staff / Caduceus with the twin snakes. It's the Sun's analemma.
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https://youtu.be/OrSz5_06e8A?si=CvinmfpwawdsMKjB
jordan maxwell dropping bombs about christianity and religions, some of the best perspectives i have seen on it
@sushi_is_cringe it was a good @ référence this time
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@Truth thanks
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@wester130
Whether most of what you wrote is true or not, I don't know. But I'll entertain the ideas presented in your post, comment on them, and offer interpretations I see as more rational.This genetic manipulation meant that the vast perception range of humans in the real golden age was now gone, and a series of genetic ‘upgrades’ (slavegrades) have confined humanity to this sliver of ‘reality’ — visible light. This involved a massive infusion of reptilian genetics to connect humans vibrationally to their ‘Matrix’.
Human vision, via the eyes, is confined to the spectrum of visible light. However, perception can go beyond this.
The Reptilians created humans in their genetic image in that they infused the human body-computer with their own reptilian information and coding.
Now, linking this into my other posts. What exactly is this human form they created in their image, and tuned human awareness into?I quote Christ:
‘Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.’
Here, The Master declares that the father of mortal man is none other than The Devil, and that his domain is lust, and that there is no truth in him.
From this, it appears that what humans (or perhaps more appropriately, "souls") were tuned into was the human body itself, not necessarily having needed to be modified by some entities known as reptilians. The body exists in space and time, but true reality is that which is outside of space and time, the One. Hence, we could say that the realm of time and space is the father of mortal men.
It is dangerous to believe that people don't believe you because you're telling the truth. If a person truly believes this, they trap themselves in a position where they can't (from their perspective) be proven wrong, even if they truly are wrong. There are various reasons for why people dismiss truths. But as far as I know, people don't dismiss truth just because it's true. I've never needed such a concept to understand human behaviour.
The mortal man is the same human ‘body-computer’ that the reptilians created through their genetic manipulation and tuned human awareness into it. This mortal man is unreal; and is propagated through the serpent’s mind, which is the mind of the fallen angels, and is death. Death is the absence of God’s mind in the consciousness of the soul - the spiritual man made in God’s image.
The realm of time and space is in a constant flux of death and birth. Change is death. That which was is no more. But then something else occurs, or perhaps you could say is born.
A relevant quote:
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." - HeraclitusBut with constant change, there must be something beneath it which makes it possible, something unchanging. This could be called the One, or God, or pure potential.
There is definitely a part of us which is real, beyond the material unreality. This is confirmed through experience. Without an experiencer, there is no experience. And that which doesn't exist can't experience. This would be the part of us which remains, the one that is connected to the One, while the "mortal man" keeps constantly dying.
The ‘lie of the serpent’ is that the sex and lust senses are the source of life, when in fact, they are the source of death, the sex and lust senses whereby mortal man is propagated IS the serpent’s mind which connected humanity to the fake ‘Matrix’, it ‘IS* the hive mind - the mind of the fallen angels. The fallen angels are attempting to assimilate human awareness into their domain. That is the true yet horrible truth.
If the sex and lust senses are the serpent's mind, then the serpents mind is the physical body. Our consciousness is formed through the combination of the soul and the body (I feel like words are limiting me here). Soul is pure and makes consciousness possible. Consciousness is also dependent on the body, and the body alters consciousness. Sex and lust senses are there for a reason: for the continuity of animal life. The soul separated from the body has no lust.
Christ and the Apostles were from a more ancient domain and were manifest here to prevent this from occurring. Christ (The Son of God) was manifest without the law of lust of the fallen angels (immaculate conception) and was therefore free from ‘sin’ which is sex-lust, and overcame the serpent’s mind in thought desire and consciousness, and therefor overcame death and came out of the grave
Perhaps Christ realized that the true self is the soul. The body still dies, but the the body is no longer being identified with. The soul is realized to be the true self. And so in a way, he overcame death (the realm of time and space). I suspect the story of Christ is more metaphorical than literal.
All sickness, disease, and insanity comes out of the mesmerism of the serpent’s mind. The human race thus hypnotized by the serpent mind believes the lie of there serpent - that there is pleasure and life in the sex-lust senses and therefore propagates here in this mortal state, and goes to the grave.
The soul confusing itself for, identifying with, the material world it perceives.
Everything you (@wester130) wrote beyond this point can be interpreted through the perspective I provided. However, there are some comments I still want to make.
The serpent (mind of the fallen angels) lives and has his being within the thoughts of the sex brain. The thoughts of this serpent, which are lust, poison both body and mind, and produces directly or indirectly the diseases of the human race, and damns the soul. It is the mind of fallen spirits, whom God cast out of his presence for having rebelled against him as life.
I don't think it's a good idea to view these as "poison". Everything comes from the One, and nothing is without purpose. You can choose to have sex or to abstain from it. Both are valid decisions. But if transcendence (if that's the right word) is desired, it's paramount not to remain attached to the physical. The various things life has to offer can be enjoyed without identifying with them or becoming attached to them. Being in the world, not of it.
The fallen spirits are in outer darkness. They have no consciousness of that which is holy and divine. They are lustful in thought and nature. This is sin; and this is death; and the “devil sinned from the beginning;” that is, was carnal in thought. This was the origin and the beginning of sin and death
Sin, in this case, could be interpreted as the lack of wisdom, or the knowledge of that which is eternal, or true self-knowledge.
The lust of the flesh is the mind of fallen spirits - the mind of the fallen angels. Had our Lord yielded to this mind, this fallen race would have been eternally lost. But by overcoming the serpent’s mind, in thought and consciousness, he kept the holy state of thought and consciousness and became the redeemer of the human race.
Here "thought" and "consciousness" aren't the best words to use. It's through wisdom, by recollecting the self, that the illusions are burned away. The soul, no longer searching itself from outside, will no longer get trapped, or embodied, and therefore it overcomes death.
At the basic energetic level, humanity essentially has become a battery for this archontic energetic distortion - all the thoughts of sorrow, envy, hatred - low vibrational emotional energy, are generated and the ‘fallen ones’ can then absorb, synchronize, and feed on it.
Could very well be that the soul, being in essence one with God, can be used as an energy source to power the world. If this is the case, then perhaps, if we harness the power intentionally, it would be possible for us to bend reality to our will. But if this is possible, I can imagine a person wielding such power destroying themselves with it, becoming high with power. The beneficial use of it would require an appropriate orientation or direction of the mind, if this is the right way to say it (again, I feel limited by words).
Remember the traits that ‘emanate’ from the reptilian mind or serpents mind are not just lust they are also: psychopathy (no empathy), ritualistic behavior, a desire for control, compulsions and obsessions, worship, rigidity, and hierarchies.
As with lust, these also come from the animal body and are involved in survival (or adaptation to stressors) and the creation of offspring.
The ‘truth vibrations’
Truth, or rather wisdom, does not vibrate. Vibration is motion, motion is change, and change is death. Wisdom is eternal and still.
A few final notes:
- This is perhaps just personal taste, but I'd rather limit life to the realm of time and space. Life and death happen there, and that which is eternal is beyond life and death.
- It was mentioned that there is a separation from God, at least for some. This, however, can't be true in the literal sense. If God was before everything else was, then the only "material" that could be used to create things is God. Everything that is real is God, and that which isn't God isn't real. But there can be a separation from God in the sense than one identifies with the unreal, and is ignorant of their connection to God.
- The book "Return to the Brain of Eden" by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn feels relevant here, though it's approach or lens to these matters is quite different to what I've written here. It's more biological and less philosophical. Nonetheless, I think it could help provide some perspective. Reading Peat's work also helps.
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There is a sort of 'dual' nature to creation: immortal and mortal. The immortal creation is real and is LIFE. The mortal creation is unreal and is DEATH. Death is unreal to God, and as God is the source of all life, God cannot be the 'father' of mortal man, contrary to popular belief - God did not create this creation of sin and death on purpose - it was manifested as a consequence of Satan's rebellion against God as Life.
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father ye would love me; for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth you believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the Truth, why do you not believe me? He that is of God hearth God’s words; you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God.” John 8:41-47
That is to say, the Master intended to teach and did declare that the natural man, who is conceived in lust, is brought forth by the power of the Devil and the nature of the Fallen Angels and in violation of Spirit and Spiritual life and that he cannot know spiritual life and God.
That is the reason why in this 'state' you cannot know/commune with God - your soul is out of eden (the presence of God) in consciousness, in order to even 'perceive' this place.
"The Adam man," had his origin when God's spiritual creatures rebelled against God's spiritual kingdom. This was the origin and the beginning of sin. And it was the beginning of the mortal creation. God is Love/Life/Light/perfect, and when his spiritual creatures rebelled against him, they became rebels against all of his laws of light, love and life, and "the Adam man" and the material creation, which represents their natures and their laws of hatred, sickness, darkness and death, are mortal and in rebellion against God's kingdom. Mortal man is the product of the law of lust, ruled and controlled by the devil, the 'fleshly' man, and the angels who rebelled against God - against Spirit, light, and life.
Light cannot be conscious of darkness nor darkness conscious of Light--yet they coordinate upon and influence each other; and as you became Real, in consciousness to one you become un-real in consciousness to the other, as you become conscious of one you become unconscious of the other.
Darkness is the absence of Light. Death is the absence of Life. This Mortal Creation is the absence of God in consciousness. That is what Jesus meant when He said, "My Kingdom is not of this world". He is not a part of the natural man and has no part with him. The natural man is the child of the Devil.
That is, the Christ, Perfect Spiritual light and life - the Son of the Father who is Spirit and Life was manifested in the flesh and gave light and life to God's spiritual children and the natural man knew him not. The unreal was not conscious of the real.
The Angels who fell were the manifestation of His life before they fell, and, having fallen, the manifestation of the physical life of the material creation. The nature and attributes of the Fallen Angels are contrary to God and spiritual Life. Therefore this world- the physical man- "knew him not".
The natural man, born of blood and of the will of the flesh - lust, is a child of the evil forces, the Devil and the Fallen Angles and cannot know spirit and God, and the soul coming into the flesh, by this power of darkness dies.
The "power of lust" was undoubtedly the serpent who tempted the first women and caused the fall. The absence of God as Life is the Serpent. This fallen being, the Serpent, is a Spirit, but his nature in the power of lust, caused the absence of God in the soul and said to the first woman "ye shall not surely die"; the Devil was the Serpent.
How do we know the Serpent in the Garden was Satan?
Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
In Rev 12:7 Satan is referred to as 'that ancient Serpent' hence it is clear what is being referenced in genesis and who the serpent in the garden was.
We here see that it was the Devil who was an Angel in God's spiritual Kingdom-Life- and who was cast out from the presence of God as life into darkness and death for rebellion, who tempted man in the garden to yield to his mind in consciousness, and in that instant - by becoming conscious of one of the attributes of the Devil - lust - mankind was cast out of the presence of God into the consciousness of the mortal creation - sin and death.
If the Devil Satan had not rebelled and become a Fallen Angel before the solar system was created we would not have had physical and mortal bodies. We would only have had spiritual bodies. All would have been Spirit and Life here; immortal life, and we would have had spiritual bodies only.
The Devil was a liar in the beginning when he rebelled against God's Kingdom and he has been lying during all the generations of men through the priests and theologians who have ever taught that the natural man, the child of the Devil, conceived through the Satanic mind, is spiritual, holy and of God.
The 'theologians' and priests deny that the fall was lust-then how would the earth have been populated they say, if not through lust? God populated other realms with spirits, why could he not have populated this realm with spiritual beings by his own immediate creation? All of His Creation is spiritual and made in his image.
As stated, the thoughts that the lust nature of the physical man sends into man's consciousness (the soul) are the thoughts of the same nature of the minds of the Fallen Angels and they destroy man's spiritual mind and spiritual consciousness and separate him in consciousness and spiritual life from God.
SUMMARY: The unreal and Death do not exist in the Divine Mind-death only exists in consciousness in the absence of the divine mind-out of the presence of God; the fallen spirits are in this state of consciousness, and this mortal creation is the unfoldment of their minds and is unreal and death and does not exist as a reality in the divine mind.
When these 'evil angels' rebelled they were cast of His spiritual Kingdom-out of his presence as life-into the consciousness of matter, darkness avarice, and death which were the attributes of the nature opposite to the attributes of God. The attributes of the evil angels are spiritual darkness and hatred, greed, vanity, deceit, lust and spiritual death, all of which is the absence of God as life in the soul. The attributes of the fallen angels are manifested in the personality and nature of the material and physical man.
The material and mortal are God's means of manifesting the opposite of himself, as the result of their transgression.
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No offence wester but you seem a little lost in waffle.
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what is a "man"?
lifting weights and snorting protein powder?
I discussed this here
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3993/peat-did-not-believe-in-the-androgenic-man/4
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@wester130 sounds gnostic and hokey.
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@wester130 said in The ‘Fall’ of man from a new perspective.:
lifting weights and snorting protein powder?
No obviously not. That's just a phase, a misdirection and/or a precept to something else for better or worse. Funny to be in or witness unless attached to a bad attitude.
what is a "man"?
Why does it matter. Why not just walk through it and try not to do any damage for the sake of it.
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Most of your reply can be interpreted through the perspective I provided in my previous reply. I do still feel like commenting on some parts of your reply. But before you read the rest of this reply, I ask you to re-read your reply through the previously provided perspective.
@wester130 said in The ‘Fall’ of man from a new perspective.:
There is a sort of 'dual' nature to creation: immortal and mortal.
The immortal is not created, it doesn't have a beginning in time. Eternity, and so immortality, is outside of time and space. Only the mortal is created.
The immortal creation is real and is LIFE. The mortal creation is unreal and is DEATH.
As I mentioned earlier, I prefer to keep life and death within the realm of time and space. God, being outside of it, is neither alive nor dead. But this might just be semantics. This is how I'll continue to use these terms.
By the way, nothing is "death". Death is the ending of life, not a thing in and of itself.
Death is unreal to God, and as God is the source of all life, God cannot be the 'father' of mortal man, contrary to popular belief - God did not create this creation of sin and death on purpose - it was manifested as a consequence of Satan's rebellion against God as Life.
Are you suggesting that God and Satan are entirely separate entities? If so, then there must be something antecedent to and containing both of them. For any kind of communication or interaction to occur between separate things, there must be a common medium which allows this to occur. But if we are to say that there's something antecedent to God, then wouldn't God not be God anymore?
Light cannot be conscious of darkness nor darkness conscious of Light--yet they coordinate upon and influence each other; and as you became Real, in consciousness to one you become un-real in consciousness to the other, as you become conscious of one you become unconscious of the other.
by becoming conscious of one of the attributes of the Devil - lust - mankind was cast out of the presence of God into the consciousness of the mortal creation - sin and death.You seem to associate "good" things with light and "bad" things with darkness. I am capable of simultaneously being conscious of the light and dark parts of myself. If light can't be conscious of darkness, and darkness can't be conscious of light, then I, being conscious of both, am neither. You'll either have to change your ideas of light and darkness or you'll have to accept a third entity that is antecedent to and contains both.
absence of God in the soul
God is the basis of everything that is. As so, there can't be a complete separation of God from soul.
All of His Creation is spiritual and made in his image.
God contains the potential for everything, and creation is the materialization of that potential. Creation is a continuous process. With every unit of time, with every change, the old dies and the new is born. You can think of it similarly to pixels on a screen turning on and off. There's a potential for the pixel to be turned on, and when they are turned on and off in specific ways, various forms of creation are observed. This isn't a perfect analogy though, but it's decent.
Things are created "in his image", but not as perfect replicas, though I don't assume you meant that. The perfect, eternal (or immortal, if you prefer that word) ideas of things are within God, and creation is the imperfect replication of those ideas within time and space.
man's consciousness (the soul)
These two are not to be confused with each other. As I mentioned in my reply to your original post, what is commonly thought of as consciousness arises from the interplay of the soul and the body. This is evidenced from the book "Return to the Brain of Eden", Peat's work, experiences with psychoactive substances, and even everyday occurrences such as the effect of blood sugar on mood and behavior.
As pertaining to blood sugar, here are my thoughts briefly on this:
- An organism needs adequate energy for survival. When blood sugar is low, people can become hangry. They need fuel, without which they'll die if they go long enough without it. In certain situation, like in environments of scarcity, the anger could be important for survival. But when living in abundance, and without any perception of present or future threats, there's no need for the "negative" behaviours.
That being said, these states of consciousness and resulting behaviours are mediated through various chemicals, and these chemicals can be altered through drugs, foods and other things to create the same internal chemistry as in a state with an obvious external threat even if there is no real threat.
The attributes of the evil angels are spiritual darkness and hatred, greed, vanity, deceit, lust and spiritual death, all of which is the absence of God as life in the soul. The attributes of the fallen angels are manifested in the personality and nature of the material and physical man.
The state of the body doesn't just contribute to lust and the various "bad" things. It also contributes to "good" things like empathy and altruism. There's an entire class of drugs, empathogens, that increase emotional empathy and decrease aggression. Both "good" and "bad", and the way we perceive them, are modulated by the body. Human behaviour, including both "sinful" and "good" behaviour, is better understood through the lens of (evolutionary) biology and biochemistry rather than fallen angels.
I put "good" and "bad" in quotation marks because, from my perspective, nothing is inherently good or bad.
- An organism needs adequate energy for survival. When blood sugar is low, people can become hangry. They need fuel, without which they'll die if they go long enough without it. In certain situation, like in environments of scarcity, the anger could be important for survival. But when living in abundance, and without any perception of present or future threats, there's no need for the "negative" behaviours.
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