did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?
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It seems that Peat also recommended to take NDT just like a synthetic product like Cynoplus.
I believe his general recommendation was to take half grain with lunch dinner and breakfast.
how did that dose at dinner work for you? did it cause you some trouble falling a sleep or insomnia?
I do not think Armour should be taken like cynoplus, perhaps twice a day is enoguh, and on an empty stomach. The T3 in it won't peak that fast like the T3 in Cynoplus
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@GRay said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
It seems that Peat also recommended to take NDT just like a synthetic product like Cynoplus.
I believe his general recommendation was to take half grain with lunch dinner and breakfast.
how did that dose at dinner work for you? did it cause you some trouble falling a sleep or insomnia?
I do not think Armour should be taken like cynoplus, perhaps twice a day is enoguh, and on an empty stomach. The T3 in it won't peak that fast like the T3 in Cynoplus
I’ve tried several dosing schedules with and without food and Ray’s recommendation works the best for me. I take half a grain of Armour at breakfast, lunch, dinner and with some hot cider or herbal tea before bed and I fall asleep fast (within a minute) and sleep soundly through the night. With that said, if I’ve had starch and/or too much protein, I wake between 2 and 4 am regardless so diet is the most important factor for me.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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Does your thyroid atrophy with those dosages?
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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thanks for your feedback. I wish I can fall a sleep within a minute and sleep sound through the night too.
I was also taking half grain before breakfast and lunch, for the past month I have tried with a 1/4 before dinner, sometime with food, some time without. For the first couple of weeks I thought it wouldn't bother my ability to fall a sleep, but after a month I thought it did. I stopped it now and I seem to fall a sleep better. I was hoping the extra 1/4 would improve my sleep but it didn't.
Curious if you have any TSH to compare with the same dose Amour with food vs without
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@jamezb46 said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
Does your thyroid atrophy with those dosages?
It doesn’t atrophy, no. Ray said that “the working thyroid gland produces about the equivalent of 4 grains of desiccated thyroid per day so taking that amount makes up for what your gland would be producing,” and studies using isotopes where large doses of thyroid were given to subjects until their glands were completely shut off showed that their glands returned to normal activity in 2 to 3 days of ceasing supplementation. Ray went on to say that “the gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc.” At two grains a day, I can miss doses and even stop taking it abruptly and experience no negative effects, except during times of extreme stress. When my mum (and best friend) passed away tragically and I took on all her responsibilities caring for my dad, even 4 grains of thyroid was ineffective.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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You’re welcome, @GRay.
Have you noticed any sleep improvements with dietary changes?All I have are tests taken while fasted and non-fasted—two times I had eaten (and taken thyroid) within a half hour of the blood draw—and my TSH values were almost identical, however, I have found TSH to be an unreliable diagnostic, since several things can affect it, including adrenaline (it lowers TSH), which compensates when thyroid function is poor. When my thyroid crashed and I had adrenaline off the charts—I was in such a catabolic state that my body wasted away to 67 lb/30 kg at 5’4” and my spine collapsed—my TSH was 0.83. The best diagnostics for me have been temp, pulse rate, muscle relaxation rate (Achilles tendon reflex), rate of evaporation (determined by measuring the total fluids consumed and peed out in a 24 hr period) and mood.
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Thanks for sharing.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@Jennifer said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
Have you noticed any sleep improvements with dietary changes?
My diet style has been very similar for years. Since opening to Peat ideas I eat more carbs less fat and a bit less protein. I thought initially eating more carbs especially at night would help with sleep, but most of the times I still wake up a couple of times during sleep,
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I'm not so sure TSH recover that fast after stopping/reducing T3 or NDT, I mean I'd like to think that.
In the study I'm attaching below, a single 50mcg dose of T3 lowered TSH for several days. Now, 50mcg all in once is a huge dose, perhaps 5/10mcg at the time won't have same effect.
what do you think?
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My pleasure, @jamezb46.
I see, @GRay. You’ve increased carbs and decreased fat and protein, but have you experimented with different carb and protein sources? I ask because I, and other people I have worked with to optimize their health, have discovered that some sleep well with simple sugars and dairy as their main carb and protein sources, while others sleep better with starch and meat, especially the glycine-rich, as their main sources.
Without knowing the test subjects’ thyroid functions in the study you linked or how accurate blood values as a measurement are compared to isotopes in the study Ray referenced, and not having the study, since he mentions it in email exchanges with other forum members, I can’t answer you with confidence, but the results aren’t that far off from each other, anyway. Just for reference, here are the email exchanges:
“[TAKING THYROID WILL HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS] Experimenters using isotopes gave large doses of thyroid until the subjects' glands were completely shut off, and when they stopped giving the doses, everyone's gland returned to normal activity in just 2 or 3 days. The gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc.
[HOW TO STOP THYROID] If a person's thyroid gland has been inhibited by very high doses of a supplement, it takes only 2 or 3 days for the gland to resume full activity, and because it takes time for the hormone to be excreted, suddenly stopping a supplement shouldn't be noticeable, when the gland isn't being inhibited or malfunctioning.”
— https://expulsia.com/health/emailexchanges#Long_Term_Effects
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@Jennifer said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
I see, @GRay. You’ve increased carbs and decreased fat and protein, but have you experimented with different carb and protein sources? I ask because I, and other people I have worked with to optimize their health, have discovered that some sleep well with simple sugars and dairy as their main carb and protein sources, while others sleep better with starch and meat, especially the glycine-rich, as their main sources.
I haven't really experienced that much. I tried few times to add more dairy with milk but I can't tolerate it. It would be so easy to get protein and carbs in with milk, but I get constipated. Raw milk is a little bit better. Cheese seems to be ok with me, I eat 2/3 oz per day.
I eat 140gr of carbs from white rice divided in half lunch/dinner, the rest of my carbs is fruit honey. Do you think a safe trial could be replacing the 140gr of rice carbs with plain sugar?
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@Jennifer said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
Without knowing the test subjects’ thyroid functions in the study you linked or how accurate blood values as a measurement are compared to isotopes in the study Ray referenced, and not having the study, since he mentions it in email exchanges with other forum members, I can’t answer you with confidence, but the results aren’t that far off from each other, anyway. Just for reference, here are the email exchanges:
“[TAKING THYROID WILL HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS] Experimenters using isotopes gave large doses of thyroid until the subjects' glands were completely shut off, and when they stopped giving the doses, everyone's gland returned to normal activity in just 2 or 3 days. The gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc.
[HOW TO STOP THYROID] If a person's thyroid gland has been inhibited by very high doses of a supplement, it takes only 2 or 3 days for the gland to resume full activity, and because it takes time for the hormone to be excreted, suddenly stopping a supplement shouldn't be noticeable, when the gland isn't being inhibited or malfunctioning.”
— https://expulsia.com/health/emailexchanges#Long_Term_Effects
thanks for your thoughts. I heard Ray mentioning this before
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You’re welcome, @GRay.
Milk is problematic for the majority of people I communicate with so I understand. Do you have any digestive issues when not consuming milk? If so, it may be worth it to trial the white sugar for a brief time, sure. Or even fruit juice with no additives like ascorbic and citric acid, since it has vitamins and minerals that can aid sleep, but is also free of starch and fiber like refined sugar. Either way, it should tell you if starch is problematic for you or not. -
@Jennifer said in did taking Armour the Peat way at night worked for you?:
Do you have any digestive issues when not consuming milk?
I do. It has been for about 4 years that I'm dealing with something.
I went to a gastroenterologist and we thought a possible SIBO as my symptoms were sometime diarrhea after eating, plus constipation and bloating. We tried a course of Xifaxan but did not resolve the issue. Gasto then said it could be IBS, and suggested a probiotic.
I started the MegaSpore since it is Peat friendly, and It did helped immediately with the diarrhea symptom. At some point I even saw my stool forming normally but it did not resolve the issue. I'm not really sure if it is doing anything right now.
I still often complaining about not "empty" out well and constipation, and my stool not forming that often either.
I have been trying the carrot salad and mushroom for a while, with the latter more effective to get rid of constipation. -
Oh, okay, @GRay. In cases of SIBO, diarrhea indicates an overgrowth of hydrogen producing bacteria and constipation indicates an overgrowth of methane producing bacteria so the standard treatment involves Xifaxan for hydrogen producing bacteria and Neomycin for methane producing bacteria. It can take many courses to eradicate the overgrowth so if you do have SIBO, one round may not have been enough for you. Haidut mentioned up to 3 months. My doctor prescribed me a month long course and my SIBO persisted, but because each course costs over $2,000, my insurance wouldn’t cover more rounds. Thankfully, getting on thyroid and optimizing my dose helped eradicate it.
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thanks for the info.
My Xifaxan course was for 2 weeks only. How would you know if I have SIBO or IBS? can you actually have both?
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You’re welcome, @GRay. To diagnose it, doctors typically order a breath test, but a comprehensive stool test can also detect it, however, depending on where you live, the latter is considered more alternative testing so it isn’t always covered by insurance and can be quite pricey—it cost me $1,000. I don’t know if it would be classified as IBS, but bowels could certainly be irritable if an overgrowth is present. Due to doctors misinterpreting the results of my breath test and the SIBO going untreated for years, I developed such a severe case of gastritis that raw fruit was the only food that wasn’t a trigger, and even then it was only certain fruit and the fruit had to be juiced. I spent at least 2 hours a day juicing. Thankfully, a new doctor reading my file caught the error.
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I’m glad you have resolved your gut issues. It seems to be a bit complicated resolving gut issues.
I just had a visit with my gastro today. We want to try another course of Xifaxan along with Neomycin this time, funny we just talked about this yesterday. He mentioned some potential side effects from Neomycin to watch for.
He did mentioned the SIBO test being very expensive and not covered by insurance, so at the moment it is not an option for me.
He is not comfortable to do more than 2 weeks course at time. I will have a follow up in 4 weeks see how things are, perhaps trying another course later.
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@GRay when did Ray recommend this? Did he recommend this approach to someone specifically?
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No idea, perhaps @Jennifer knows more about it.
