@RageAchilles

I don't think that the added DHEA would "do nothing" just because you're young. By that logic why wouldn't the pregnenalone also do nothing if you're not deficient?

Haidut's recommendation is not to exceed 15mg DHEA per day in 3 divided doses, and to take steroids with niacinamide to increase NAD+/NADH.

He has also posted that 2-3 mg of androsterone limited aromatase activity by 90%.

So, taking something in the range of 10-15mg pansterone + 1-2 mg androsterone per day as a male should be ideal if you want the maximum effect.

@hcwilliams You could try tribulus terrestris. It is known to decrease elevated prolactin, increase DHT levels and does not raise estrogen.

Perhaps also look into stronger dopamine agonists/serotonin antagonists such as the beta cabergolines or their derivatives such as lisuride, 9 me-bc, bromocriptine.

To get estrogen under control I think androsterone is a good option.

@sneedful

Please explain where in OP there is even a hint of this "idealism" you speak of.

I ended it by saying that I doubt its realistic to work, for example, for the manufacturer of Mildronate, which is Grindeks.

I'm about to start a MS program in statistics and am wondering which pharmaceutical companies have a bioenergetic perspective?

Ideally, I want to work for/alongside a pharma company/scientists who are at least open to the idea of using metabolic modulation to achieve health outcomes.

From my brief research, it seems that many of the best pharma companies who have this perspective are in eastern Europe. I don't know how realistic it is to work for them.

@yeyo12

Yes, I did a 6 week cycle of tbol. Waiting until some injuries heal before I go back on.

I don't think sarms are as safe or effective as the orals I mentioned. But if you have some research showing that they're safe and effective, I'd be open to seeing it. I'm just not aware that they do anything better than tbol/var/dbol already can. They were also mainly developed by modifying antiandrogens, with some exceptions. Some are mixed agonists/antagonists. I'm also not sure about liver health at effective doses.

@Cezar4911 said in Oral steroids. Tbol/Dbol/Var:

@Serotoninskeptic pin something instead of playing around with insignificant amounts of oral steroids that are still a burden to your liver

Reply

Here is what pinning something will do:

1. Unless a very short ester is used (ex. Propionate), it will take weeks to even feel an effect

2. You will be injecting foreign material into the muscle/subcutaneous space that is likely to contain seed oils and is guaranteed to contain preservatives (BA, BB)

3. You will be guaranteed to be shut down if you run the injectable cycle for a time frame that makes any sense (16-24 weeks), and the suppression will last months after your last shot. Only way to mitigate is by taking enclomiphene (a potentially harmful pharma drug) or a powerful AI like aromasin or arimadex which if not dosed correctly will result in horrible low estrogen sides.

4. You will more than likely experience gyno or hair loss or both if you run enough injectable gear to get a meaningful effect. Even at TRT doses of testosterone, 20-70% of men had gyno.

Here is what running reasonable (20-30 mg) of tbol/var/dbol per day will do:

1. Will not suppress LH, FSH, GnRH to a meaningful extent.

2. Can get you amazing gains in the 6 week time frame that studies show is the time during which 90% of muscle gain and strength is accrued because of AR downregulation, even when using injectable cycles.

3. Allows you to cycle off after 6 weeks, after which your T levels will be normal and you can decide if another 6 week cycle is in order.

4. Will not significantly increase liver enzymes (very small increases were found in studies, but that can likely be mitigated or even abolished with NAC, TUDCA, vitamin C)

5. Will not give you gyno or hair loss, 19/20 times.

@Insomniac No it's 1:1

@Insomniac

Ray thought that alot of the pregnenalone available as supplements was damaged in the production process. Apparently if you heat the P5 too high, estrogenic substances are generated. Ray thought that some of those were present in virutally all products available OTC.

That's why he likes the progesterone better.

@thyroidchor27

Not necessarily. At doses of about 10mg/day there was almost no shutdown.

Some other steroids such as tbol and dbol also have minimal shutdown at low doses. You could probably get away with running them at around 20 mg/day for 6 weeks and not have any shutdown. 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Then repeat.

That's roughly what the east german athletes did during the state planned doping.

@pannacottas

Well, remember for @haidut anabolic is really anti-catabolic.

So, P4 he considers to be anabolic because of its anti-cortisol properties.

I want to belive this, but I find it to be doubtful. If it is really correct that AAS work primiarily through anatagonism of GR, then why don't RU486 or Emodin or beta-lapochone or other cortisol blockers make people jacked? Maybe it is the "synergy" between anagonism of GR and agonism of AR that is the real key.

That is a line of thinking developed in some of Haidut's other threads on RP forum about, for example, combining progesterone and oxandrololne and the general outline of why the "dutchess coctail" is effective.

Yes I agree that this needs to be tried and replicated. From about an hour of looking over the Cortinon thread of RP forum, many users reported some issues with comparitvely quite low doses of Cortinon, in the range of 2-4 drops, which is only 6-12mg P4, which pails in comparison to the 120 mg countenanced above.