Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List
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@risingfire I never took ozempic (or anything more than bromo, cypro, and thyroid) as I understood it, semaglutide lowers glucagon and sensitizes cells to insulin glucose dependent insulin secretion, which is in fact antagonistic to glucagon, this much is very peaty. I didn’t know the details, so I googled it:
semaglutide:
In pancreatic β-cells, this signaling cascade also enhances glucose-dependent insulin secretion and sensitivity of peripheral tissues to insulin. Simultaneously, semaglutide suppresses glucagon secretion by pancreatic α-cells, contributing to improved glycemic control.Retatrutide does a few things:
Stimulate GIP… Glucose-Dependent Insulinotropic Polypeptide (formerly Gastric Inhibitory Polypeptide)
Retatrutide is referred to as a "triple-G" agonist, it works by mimicking three hormones: GLP-1, GIP, and glucagon.
Increased GIP associated with obesity activates the GIP receptor expressed by the hypothalamus, which in turn stimulates the cAMP-EPAC-RAP1 signaling cascade. Activation of the pathway results in the induction of SOCS3 and reduces neural leptin and insulin actions.Semaglutide lowers glucagon, increases insulin. This should not lower metabolism, but increase it.
retatrutide Raises glucagon and GIP, which lowers the hunger hormone and stimulates glucagon whilst suppressing insulin. This would truly slow metabolism.
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@jamezb46 read my comment to risingfire and see what you think. Good to know about clenbuterol. Ray was a fan of epinephrine/noradrenaline for weight loss, and believed it’s reported negative effects were confused adrenaline as adrenaline rarely rises without noradrenaline too. Mild workouts that increase the heart rate without hyperventilation for instance, raise noradrenaline.
I’m interested in earning if there are any complications with clenbuterol
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@alfredoolivas I wonder if long term use of a glp with intermittent use of bromo or caber could help…
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@LetTheRedeemed they aren’t reliable at reproducing the classic dopaminergic tone which usually rises with noradrenaline and adrenaline. Better than nothing I suppose. I was using cabergoline at the time.
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@alfredoolivas interesting. Just based on your experiences, Do you still think something like semaglutide has valuable to a weight loss stack for someone who’s never used it before?
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@LetTheRedeemed if you have perfect bowel movements multiple times a day, lift weights absolutely. Gastroparesis is the main risk and it can be reversible but requires hospitalisation I’m sure. It’s been shown to reduce muscle mass but in animal studies it has been shown to be anabolic and it’s entirely possible that they cause muscle loss via the user eating too little. I’m sure eating enough protein and lifting weights with progressive overload would basically stop the catabolic effects.
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@alfredoolivas oh interesting. thanks very much for sharing it. I'm wondering if thyroid can mitigate that... did you take thyroid whilst you used it?
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@LetTheRedeemed yeah. But thyroid can be very catabolic, don’t take too much
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@alfredoolivas how much do you take per every minute
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@lobotomize This is why I take t4 only, because your stupid comment actually becomes an actual reality.
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@alfredoolivas for sure. I follow Peaty recommendations on his proposed substances, but there's basically no one in the bioenergetic sphere who supports GLP's, so it's intriguing, and I want to really iron out what it's potential actually is. I don't think there's another bioenergetic person right now who's supported GLP's that I can find
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Many fat people's metabolism are fine, they simply ate too many calories for a certain period of time and now they are stuck at a body weight they are unhappy with. That is who GLP 1s are for. IMO. It reverses the effects of a calorie surplus but it does not fix other causes of obesity, which in the end are all metabolic related, whether that has to do with lipid metabolism or energy expenditure.
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@alfredoolivas i may try it in the future. thanks for sharing your experiences
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@alfredoolivas What t4 dose? I stopped taking ~4:1 T4:T3 because it doesnt align with reality. The thyroid endogenously outputs 16:1 - 20:1 T4:T3 and taking exogenous thyroid at those ratios feels massively better than spamming t3. I've been taking 150mcg t4 and 8mcg t3, wondering how you came to a similar conclusion.
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@lobotomize Ray said to take 1 nanogram of t3 every second
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@ethan 100mcg of T4, the liver produces 80% of T3 though
@lettheredeemed thats what T4 does lol. It’s like a drip of T3, and actually allows you to receive it every second in sub nano gram amounts. That’s what my passive aggressive comment to @lobotomize me was for lol -
@alfredoolivas is that enough t4 for your height and weight? is your TSH suppressed from this amount of t4? endogenously there is always some t3 being produced from the gland, so low dose probably isnt that harmful/catabolic
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@alfredoolivas lol yup. I do think I encountered more problems than I helped when I got on NDT a few years ago. after ketocarnivore (and a whole childhood of malnutrition and sugar avoidance), I think my liver was just shot and I needed direct t3. It’s just a super case by case basis, but I believe the avg person probably does fine on primarily t4 at lunch and dinner.
The one I’m really sour about is how they extracted calcitonin from NDT meds because they can prescribe that for it’s own cool properties. Long term when I’m rich I just want to take a high quality bovine blend NDT. Found a cool one for like 60+ bucks.
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@LetTheRedeemed lgs has a not-standardized one
I started my dog on it because she was on the low end of the t4 range and within 2 weeks she grew a mohawk of more fur from her head to her tail. or maybe it was the same fur but it just stood up nowhaven't measured her thyroid since tho so idk if its from that but it probably is I dont think I changed much else other than add low dose dhea
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Putting both Alcohol and Semaglutide in your S Tier is insane, especially when one of your own qualifications for that tier is "no drawbacks."
Both already have major established drawbacks, both from acute and chronic use. In addition to the potential problems that have already been established with Semaglutide, the drug hasn't even been on the market 10 years yet, meaning there could be other major issues that haven't even been discovered yet.
Beyond those issues, Alcohol isn't "pro metabolic." In itself, it is a toxin, and it produces an even more toxic substance (Acetaldehyde) when it is being processed to Acetyl CoA. It's highly reductive, helping to build up NADH. This directly opposes the actions of some of the other substances on your list, like Methylene Blue.
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