Estrogenic, Androgenic and Progestogenic People
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In this post I wish to explain behavior and personality traits and their correlation to hormonal balance.
Please add your own that you have noticed.
Estrogen:
People under the influence of estrogen are the most negative.
They hate other people. Constant jealousy. Constant feeling of superiority/inferiority.
Fear of money.
Fear of running out of water/food/shelter.
Fear of loneliness.
Lack of energy to do anything.
Bitter, negative dark worldview.
Enjoy hurting others.
Work for themselves.
They constantly need attention and a reaction from other people to feel alive.
Often have temper tantrums and outbursts.
Not often intelligent.
A "can't be bothered" attitude.
Loves to gossip and badmouth people.
Never relaxed. Social media addicts.Testosterone:
People under the control of Testosterone want to be successful, own a car, a home and have a family.
They want everyone else in society to do this too.
They help people in their careers.
They create opportunities for people.
They build things.
They build industry.
They strive to improve, and maintain a positive outlook.
They achieve goals.
They want to improve society, and take everyone with them.
Enjoy adventures that enrich their life.Progestogenic:
This is where things can get strange.
They share qualities of both Testosterone and Estrogen.
They may have contempt and disgust for people they don't like, but they don't talk about it all the time.
They want to help others, but they don't do it directly.
They help others through wisdom and perception, rather than financially in the career world.
They may be described as asexual, autistic or even schizoid, maybe schizophrenic, but they are always in control of it.
They view the world not in terms of money, physical belongings and the nicest car, but what can be gained through knowledge.
They see themselves as outsiders of society, just passing through.
They believe in a higher power, not necessarily a religion.
They can perceive things that others cannot.
They have a great understanding of emotion and always know what emotional state other people are in.
They have instinctual knowledge and ideas. -
Pretty schizoid analysis tbh wester.
bioen.forum is an amazing place. However it's in danger of being bested by Danny Roddy X.
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@wester130 Let's be a bit scientific...
- What's your background/CV?
- What are the scientific premises for this list?
- How have you been verifying/testing your hypothesis?
- Why do you think that your observations can be universal?
- What is the difference between typology and taxonomy
- What about ratios between those hormones?
- What about adding cortisol to the mix?
- What about the neurotransmitters?
- Finally, what about the thyroid hormones?
Please provide answers without looking at google/chatgpt/etc.
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I don't think you can really distill it all down to a singular hormone. I do think these phenotypes exist. I just don't think they're controlled by one hormone. Out of the 3, I'm a progesteronic person, with some qualities of both the testosterone and estrogen group, depending on how I'm feeling.
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@ThinPicking Bro how do I access bioen.forum
Is that the websites name? Or do you just mean this forum?
Maybe its blocked on google. -
Maybe we should instead think of the following partition:
Scientific People
- Understand that the world is a complicated place
- Are careful about claiming knowledge
- Recognize based on the Copernical principle that we are probably not in the final stage of knowledge, nor even close to it
- Understand that human biology and behavior can not be split into three categories based on estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone.
Unscientific people
- Think they have things pretty much figured out
- Claim knowledge based on little real evidence, especially when it confirms the opinion they have at the time of confronting the evidence
- Think that human biology and behavior can be meaningfully split into three categories based on the levels of testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone, especially when they just feel like they know how the categories are supposed to work in the absence of scientific evidence or rigor.
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@gg12 said in Estrogenic, Androgenic and Progestogenic People:
Bro how do I access bioen.forum
Is that the websites name? Or do you just mean this forum?
Maybe its blocked on google.Skill issue. Super dark stealth web.
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This forum gg.
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Solid distinction, side of humour. I like it @jamezb46
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@jamezb46 nothing I said was scientific, they are observations.
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@wester130 said in Estrogenic, Androgenic and Progestogenic People:
nothing I said was scientific, they are observations.
Science is simply about how to better observe and how to draw better conclusions...
And yes, there is no science in your initial conclusion/categorization - just poor judgment...
This forum is devoted to Ray Peat, who was very wise, scientific, and prudent in his conclusions. Please behave accordingly.
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Did you measure the tissue and blood levels of those hormones of the people you observed? Or did you just intuit what those values were based on some kind of godlike x-ray vision where you could see the levels of hormones in their bodies just by looking at them?
I actually think that there are some observable characteristics that can give some indication of at least some of those hormones. For example, the 2D/4D digit ratio test for pre-natal testosterone exposure.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 said in Estrogenic, Androgenic and Progestogenic People:
I actually think that there are some observable characteristics that can give some indication of at least some of those hormones. For example, the 2D/4D digit ratio test for pre-natal testosterone exposure.
There was a (quasi-?) scientific attempt to approach a similar topic: https://helenfisher.com/personality/ - I may have some/many doubts about the methodology, but still I think the author at least tried to do her best...
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@Kvirion The serotonin part surprisingly in line with Peat:
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@alfredoolivas Yes, this is a good one!
But for example, I doubt the estrogen category, the study would do probably much better with progesterone instead.
I would probably also exchange Testosterone type with the T to DHT ratio... etc. -
@Kvirion I suppose she may have a point about the "negotiator" personality being driven by estrogen, but I don't think the "sympathetic, trusting, empathetic and nurturing." characteristics of these individuals are authentic.
They tend to come off of this way to most people they meet, and people who don't know better think they are lovely, but in reality these conveyed messages of sympthathy, trust, empathy and nurture, don't mean anything, and they hold no weight.
They tend to act this way, I think because it is a comfortable, safe, easy, pleasurable way to interact with the world. Maybe. I don't know why they are act this way, I don't think it is to manipulate others too.
But basically from my expereience, these "negotiator" personalities are always very fake and their kindness does not mean anything, and it is only done out of convenience. It doesn't cost them anything that is a large reason they act this way -they will not dip their foot into water to save you, as soon as their kindness costs them something they are no longer kind. So I think that this personality may indeed be driven by estrogen, but for nefarious reasons only.
I tend to see noticable kindness as a bad first impression when I meet someone. Rudeness is equally as bad.
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@alfredoolivas my new barber gave these vibes to me. I was suspicous of his personality for a few months. However, last time I went to get a haircut from him, he offered to lower the price of my already discounted hair cut. It was already a very inexpensive price, in an expensive part of town, lowering the price would mean he would be working the last hour maybe a few dollars above minimum wage. I saw that his kindness wasn't a veil, and genuine, and now I trust him and greatly appreciate him.
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@alfredoolivas Yeah, I see your point.
I guess it would be better to exchange the category name for "mediators" - ones who don't like their friends fighting each other and try to establish consensus or mutual understanding. This will fit more with empathy.
But this is one of my reservations about this study - categories seem to be too broad... too generalized.
Or maybe this study should be seen just as a study of dating sites'' members nothing more...
I tend to see noticable kindness as a bad first impression when I meet someone.
This may be highly context/culture-dependent...
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@jamezb46 Wester actually has laser vision high performance liquid chromatography sensitive hormone testing, he can detect the hormone concentrations of anyone in the room with him, to a precision of 2 decimal places
