Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating"
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Hello,
To preface; I am not a Peater, and my knowledge of Peating is limited to occasionally seeing Peaters on twitter.
My 24 year old brother seems to have discovered Ray Peat about 2-3 months ago; he started talking about taking anti-histamines and Thyroid then.
About 3 weeks ago, he was hospitalized for a psychotic episode; he hallucinated among other things that he had a daughter that'd been taken from him, was receiving visions from Mary/angels/demons, was possessed, seeing imaginary patterns in numbers, thinking our parents and other random people were in on a conspiracy to harm him. During a brief period in which he was let out, he attacked and tried to kill our father. When questioned about this, he either denies this took place, or says our father started it and is possessed. He is still in the hospital, and still mostly disconnected from reality with periodic episodes of severe psychosis.
Before the last 2 months, he was pretty solidly grounded, and gave no indication of thinking in this way. He had expressed some initial interest in both numerology and health in the last 4 or 5 months or so, but it didn't seem to be that serious at the time. He had had problems with recreational drugs, but no episodes of violent outburst or overwhelming paranoia and delusion.We discovered that up until his hospitalization, he'd been taking THC gummies, progestene, tyronene, cyproheptadine, androstene, metergolin, tucda, dhea, mk-7, betaine hcl, taurine. Most of these were ordered from IdeaLabs. During moments of termporary ludicity, he denies taking anything else, and we've found no evidence of anything else. At the very least, he can't have taken anything (besides nicotine and antipsychotics) during the 3 weeks he's been sectioned.
Does anyone on this forum know if what he had been taking might've caused this?
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@brotherwentcrazy sounds awful what you are going through. Sad to see. All I can tell is that cannabis, and I guess to some extent maybe THC?, can cause schizophrenia, or perhaps it was just bringing out a dormant problem, idk. I don't know all the things you listed, but THC seems like the worst. Googling TCH/weed and schizophrenia I found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8343183/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32839678/
(from second paper abstract) -
@brotherwentcrazy how old is he?
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@eric he is 24; I'll see if I can put that in an edited OP as it's definitely important info.
@gugenmungus Thank you for your response; I do know about the connection between psychosis and THC, but I do think that it's likely the other compounds are playing a major role. He's been using THC for awhile, and only once he started using these other compounds has he begun to lose his mind.
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In combination with stress, pot smokers can release THC from the tissues and get high that way (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782342/). Other estrogens can also be stored in the tissue and released during stress. Psychosis is the inefficient usage of oxygen, compounded with cortisol, low vitamin D and high PTH, and when you're high you're definitely burning fat instead of using sugar. Though he's a guy and taking T3 only (tyronene) instead of T3/T4 (tyromix), I have heard that it's more stressful to the organism taking only T3. DHEA can also turn into estrogen, assuming he's young, typically you wouldn't want to supplement DHEA.
No clue why he's supplementing betaine hcl, doesn't it just increase methionine? Not peaty.
Anyway. If I were to guess, 1) his diet did not match at all the supplements he was taking, and 2) progesterone does clear out tissue estrogen, so if he didn't take enough, all that compounded estrogen that's released and circulating went not-as-opposed as it should have been. in combination with stress, yeah he just goes fight or flight or delirium.
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@brotherwentcrazy said in Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating":
@eric he is 24; I'll see if I can put that in an edited OP as it's definitely important info.
24 is the exact median age for the onset of schizophrenia
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concentration/name/source of thc gummies? Any other previous pathologies, particularly neurological & endocrine related? Any previous medications? Use of other recreational drugs? Any known allergies or adverse drug reactions? What were the results of blood panel? Any brain/ glandular scans?
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@brotherwentcrazy some of my darkest moments have been from cyproheptadine due to releasing stored serotonin apparently, would be very careful with it
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@yeehawyinzer was following Ashwagandha usage so if he was on any form of SSRIs in the past, could also be a factor,
not sure how THC is in play with all of these but would likely play a part
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@brotherwentcrazy said in Brother is having month-long psychotic episode after "Peating":
THC gummies,
Yeah...
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@yeehawyinzer also, cyproheptadine and metergoline activate the same serotonin receptor
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@izkrov Thank you for the reply. His diet definitely was erratic and probably not peaty. For years he lived off of mostly cereal and frozen pizza. I don't think he changed too much recently...
Do you think that if he stops taking these for a bit, the episodes may stop?@skylark Unfortunately I am not sure; my guess is they were pretty potent.
He actually had had a couple concussions, and some febrile seizures when very very young, though those have stopped.
In the past, he went on one steroid cycle I believe. This was about 3 years ago.
I believe he was on SSRIs and adderall for a time; I will need to double-check to confirm. He has gone long stretches without medications of any kind but has used them in the past.
No allergies I believe. He had previously used both PCP (I think only once) and benzos (many times) and had had a couple episodes on them, though both of those ended quickly, and he acted more like a blackout drunk during them rather than someone hallucinating. I don't believe he's ever done any psychedelics.
I'll need to check the blood panel, I haven't looked at it directly, but my parents told me there wasn't anything particularly noteworthy IIRC.
He's never had a brain/glandular scan AFAIK@yeehawyinzer thank you for the comments, it makes sense these definitely could've impacted him in that way then
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Really sorry to hear this has happened to your brother. As has already been said, it was most likely the combo of THC, cyproheptadine and metergoline that affected his mental state, the rest I can't see how they could cause something like this but that's the problem with witch's brew supplementation, with him having taken so much its hard to say much more.
Of course there's also the chance that he is taking something other than these, given his history as you explained. Would mean they are very well hidden or stashed with a friend but might be worth considering. -
Someone on RPF claimed to have seen similar cases with Idealabs products. Who knows if it's a legitimate concern or a targeted attack (including you).
"Been seeing quite a few people dealing with various mental and other health issues posting here and around online.
Some are mixing various Idealabs products which do have interactions. Or adding them on top of using other medicines.
Dealing with things like hallucinations, ocd, depression etc.
People think everything is cool and fine without doing any research on how the products works."
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/haidut-aka-georgi-has-been-banned-edit-ban-has-been-lifted.52448/page-2#post-979950 -
Do you know what condition the SSRIs were prescribed for? Any OCD tendencies? What did the Docs think?
Obviously thc, metergoline & cyproheptadine have strong neurological effects and can be abused. SSRIs can leave long-lasting effects and are known for unpredictable interactions with other drugs that modulate serotonin function.
Additionally, if the diet is not sufficient, increasing metabolic rate, especially through the use of drugs, can lead to deficiencies of regulatory nutrients such as magnesium & vitamin D, leading to sudden disturbance in glucose metabolism and effecting energy systems in the brain.
Supplementing milk, fruit & vitamin D usually has a stabilising effect.
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@brotherwentcrazy I think it could've been the combination of THC and metergolin. Might have stimulated the brain too much with no stopping (prolactin).I remember back in the day on looksmaxxing forums they'd recommend cabergolin to lower inhibitions, trying to become more dopaminergic so they could take more risks. Doubt that would be a good combination with THC and god knows how much THC and cabergolin he used. Might sound "anti-peaty" but THC can have a strong effect on both dopamine and I'm sure serotonin as well. That's probably why you see people who are slowly starting to become schizophrenic on drugs placing such a large value on meaningless and incoherent topics/places/things, etc.
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@TheSir Mixing Idealabs research chemicals and recreational drugs, what could go wrong?
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Classic serotonin syndrome. Can be caused by drug-interactions between anti-histamines and any number of the things he's been taking.
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@NangaParbat How are you so sure it was serotonin syndrome and not psychosis, schizophrenia being triggered by the THC and research chemicals that alter neurochemicals in the brain?
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