Epitestosterone, premature balding, and "male PCOS"
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Androstenedione raises EpiT very strongly.
Maybe that's easier to acquire.
But the T:E ratio also increased, meaning Testosterone increased even more. So it's not like it only increases EpiT."The means (microg/h) for groups 1, 2, and 3, respectively were, for epitestosterone 2.27, 7.74, and 18.0; for E-precursor, 2.9, 2.0, and 1.5; for EM-1/E-precursor 0.31, 1.25, and 2.88; for EM-2/E-precursor 0.14, 0.15, and 1.15; for testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) 1.1, 3.5, and 3.2. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11996927/ -
@Mauritio I've been trying to get ahold of epiTest myself for some time. And I've recently communicated with a reputable and well known steroid source who says he will be willing to provide a custom synthesis of it in MCT oil.
However, his minimum purchase amount in USD is quite high for a custom synth ($10k USD) - granted the amount he is offering for that price is not unreasonable (50-100g) - It would need to be a group buy most likely. I would be willing to participate in a group buy if there was substantial interest. (I'm trying to evangelize on X)
Maybe the 7keto option would work, but it won't dissolve. Maybe a pure powder dissolved in oil ?
7keto I think only works if you're natty, because it works by occupying some key enzyme which then shifts the balance for androstenedione towards 17a rather than 17b. If you're not really producing androstenedione to begin with, I doubt it's really relevant. I'm not natty so it's useless to me but for others probably useful.
Androstenedione raises EpiT very strongly.
This raises an interesting question of whether androstenedione might be a better "base" compound for a steroid cycle as it supplies a precursor for both test AND epitest, so it even though it raises the T:Epi ratio in a vacuum, compared to just being on test and having 0 EpiT it might be comparatively desirable.
The same source sells a DHEA ester and I wonder if that might be a similar situation...
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Another piece of this puzzle I'm putting together is that 17a-HSD seems to be mainly concentrated in the testes with very little peripheral activity relative to 17b. And it seems to be stimulated by gonadotropins. So supplemental androstenedione and DHEA are pretty unlikely to form meaningful amounts of epiTest. Frustratingly, it does look like supplementing epiTest directly is probably the only real way to accomplish our goals.
Another roadblock is that 17a steroids have a steric hindrance which prevents cleavage of most esters. This means that the steroid ester floats around with the ester still attached, and the unchanged steroid ester can have a meaningfully different pharmacological profile than a base steroid. For example, 17a-hydroxyprogesterone acetate doesn't convert to 17ahp base very much, and this changes its receptor binding. (Positively in this case) For a 17a androgen, the uncleaved ester would probably make it unable to bind to the androgen receptor at all.
So while it could potentially form estered 17a neurosteroids with long half lives (which could certainly be interesting) it probably will not be useful in the same way that natural EpiTest would. It's quite a condundrum.
That all being the case, it's pretty clear IMO that doing a group buy or convincing said source that there's a market for this molecule is probably our best bet.
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This raises an interesting question of whether androstenedione might be a better "base" compound for a steroid cycle as it supplies a precursor for both test AND epitest, so it even though it raises the T:Epi ratio in a vacuum, compared to just being on test and having 0 EpiT it might be comparatively desirable.
The same source sells a DHEA ester and I wonder if that might be a similar situation...
Yes I think so, too.
Although it seems to depend a lot on downstream conversion and the enzymes that convert substrates into EpiT.
On my nail test you can see I have very androstenedione and high T but non existent EpiT, so downstream conversion seems to be an issue here. Not sure how to address that.If someone still wants to test out androstenedione, here's a video using binaural beats that simulates it.
Youtube Video -
Androstenedione was more effective than testosterone in this study .
Post in thread 'Androsterone - Androgenic Neurosteroid Required For Male Sexual Behavior' https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/androsterone-androgenic-neurosteroid-required-for-male-sexual-behavior.12608/post-984465
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@Mauritio Apparently androstenedione can't be esterified
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@jimmynelson based on all this - would telmisartan be the best drug?
it acts like metformin in a unique way to control insulin resistance but also helps blood pressure and reduces aldosterone
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@wester130 I'm not sure insulin resistance or aldosterone factor in much here. can you elaborate on what you mean?
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@jimmynelson pcos phenotype being driven by insulin resistance and SHBG
telmisartan can help insuling resistance
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the benefits are sometimes better than dhea
https://www.rthm.com/resources/blogs/7-keto-dhea-supplement-guide
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B BioEclectic referenced this topic
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