vitamin E complex?
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is it necessary to take the entire complex or is alpha tocopherol alone good? can it become toxic at a certain point or does it just cause an imabalance?
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@winters2 said in vitamin E complex?:
winters2
- is alpha tocopherol alone good?
- can it become toxic at a certain point
- Not alone. minimum 2 tocos, 80 % alpha and 20 % another one could be ok. Alpha-toco could prevent another kind to reach the target..
- too much of a good thing is bad. Excess quinones.
Excerpt 1
“Vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and vitamin E protects β-carotene, helped in this by polyphenols. In the event of β-carotene supplementation, vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and β-carotene, and β-carotene seems to protect vitamin E without really explaining this phenomenon"
Savings effect
Vitamin E is not just a vitamin. Vitamin C makes it possible to recycle oxidized vitamin E and thus prolong its lifespan. The same goes with glutathione which is thus saved for other more useful functions (detox). Glutathion is our antioxidant master.
Vitamin E protects against the deleterious effects of polyunsaturated fatty acids when the latter are excess. And this is quickly done!Note: I can give a link if you want more details.
I take 400 UI 2x/wk. 3x if inflammation ... -
@LucH said in vitamin E complex?:
@winters2 said in vitamin E complex?:
winters2
- is alpha tocopherol alone good?
- can it become toxic at a certain point
- Not alone. minimum 2 tocos, 80 % alpha and 20 % another one could be ok. Alpha-toco could prevent another kind to reach the target..
- too much of a good thing is bad. Excess quinones.
Excerpt 1
“Vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and vitamin E protects β-carotene, helped in this by polyphenols. In the event of β-carotene supplementation, vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and β-carotene, and β-carotene seems to protect vitamin E without really explaining this phenomenon"
Savings effect
Vitamin E is not just a vitamin. Vitamin C makes it possible to recycle oxidized vitamin E and thus prolong its lifespan. The same goes with glutathione which is thus saved for other more useful functions (detox). Glutathion is our antioxidant master.
Vitamin E protects against the deleterious effects of polyunsaturated fatty acids when the latter are excess. And this is quickly done!Note: I can give a link if you want more details.
I take 400 UI 2x/wk. 3x if inflammation ...The VitE you want is tocotrienol (Delta and Gamma). The sourcing should be from the Annatto plant.
Check out Dr. Barrie Tan - the foremost expert on it. He's got plenty of long form interviews on YouTube.
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@Ismail said in vitamin E complex?:
I don't see much here other than "trust me bro he's a pharma hack".
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@JtheDreamer said in vitamin E complex?:
The sourcing should be from the Annatto plant
Not just α-tocopherols. Why?
We shouldn’t supplement with just one form and neglect the others. Why?
Members of the vitamin E group are much more effective when combined. Different forms of vitamin E have complementary free-radical scavenger effects, not only against ROS.
Together, the different forms can combat a much broader spectrum of free radicals than alpha-tocopherol alone. To some extent, alpha tocopherol can inhibit the generation of free radicals. Gamma tocopherol, on the other hand, is able to immobilize and eliminate existing free radicals as highly toxic as nitric oxide. Gamma tocopherol can thus protect cells from the mutagenic and carcinogenic effects of very dangerous reactive molecules. (1)
Even when a high level of α-T1 saturates the carrier (> 250 UI?) there is a passive assimilation. Up to recently (2000-2010, note’s editor), it was thought α-TTP (α-tocopherol transfer protein) has the greatest binding affinity towards α-tocopherol compared to other vitamin E forms (Hosomi et al., 1997). But, even if there is well a positive discrimination at the site of the liver (via VLDL, LDL and HDL, as carriers), (showing a preference for α -T1), this is without taking into account the passive absorption of the different tissues, for the other forms of T1 and T3 (passive diffusion).
T1 = Tocopherols
T3 = Tocotrienols
α-TTP = α-tocopherol transfer protein (carrier)
Sources & References
*) High doses [alone] of α-tocopherol deplete plasma and tissue γ-tocopherol, in contrast with supplementation with γ-tocopherol, which increases both.
Qing Jiang, Stephan Christen, Mark K Shigenaga and Bruce N Ames. Gamma Tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E in the US diet, deserves more attention, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 74, No. 6, 714-722, December 2001. https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/74.6.714
*) Bioavailability of tocotrienols
Tocotrienols may reach its target destination through an alternative pathway despite its low affinity for α-tocopherol transfer protein.
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-11-5
*) Interaction
High dose of Vitamin E may interfere with the way the body processes certain herbs or supplements using the liver's cytochrome P450 (detox pathway).
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/vitamin-e/interactions/HRB-20060476
*) See other sources on my forum. Main article in French (translator needed) but with several English sources in the second post.
Les critères d’équivalence de la vitamine E sont à revoir (Vitamin E equivalence criteria need to be reviewed)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2104-les-criteres-dequivalence-de-la-vitamine-e-sont-a-revoir#30174 -
@LucH said in vitamin E complex?:
@JtheDreamer said in vitamin E complex?:
The sourcing should be from the Annatto plant
Not just α-tocopherols. Why?
We shouldn’t supplement with just one form and neglect the others. Why?
Members of the vitamin E group are much more effective when combined. Different forms of vitamin E have complementary free-radical scavenger effects, not only against ROS.
Together, the different forms can combat a much broader spectrum of free radicals than alpha-tocopherol alone. To some extent, alpha tocopherol can inhibit the generation of free radicals. Gamma tocopherol, on the other hand, is able to immobilize and eliminate existing free radicals as highly toxic as nitric oxide. Gamma tocopherol can thus protect cells from the mutagenic and carcinogenic effects of very dangerous reactive molecules. (1)
Even when a high level of α-T1 saturates the carrier (> 250 UI?) there is a passive assimilation. Up to recently (2000-2010, note’s editor), it was thought α-TTP (α-tocopherol transfer protein) has the greatest binding affinity towards α-tocopherol compared to other vitamin E forms (Hosomi et al., 1997). But, even if there is well a positive discrimination at the site of the liver (via VLDL, LDL and HDL, as carriers), (showing a preference for α -T1), this is without taking into account the passive absorption of the different tissues, for the other forms of T1 and T3 (passive diffusion).
T1 = Tocopherols
T3 = Tocotrienols
α-TTP = α-tocopherol transfer protein (carrier)
Sources & References
*) High doses [alone] of α-tocopherol deplete plasma and tissue γ-tocopherol, in contrast with supplementation with γ-tocopherol, which increases both.
Qing Jiang, Stephan Christen, Mark K Shigenaga and Bruce N Ames. Gamma Tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E in the US diet, deserves more attention, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 74, No. 6, 714-722, December 2001. https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/74.6.714
*) Bioavailability of tocotrienols
Tocotrienols may reach its target destination through an alternative pathway despite its low affinity for α-tocopherol transfer protein.
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-11-5
*) Interaction
High dose of Vitamin E may interfere with the way the body processes certain herbs or supplements using the liver's cytochrome P450 (detox pathway).
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/vitamin-e/interactions/HRB-20060476
*) See other sources on my forum. Main article in French (translator needed) but with several English sources in the second post.
Les critères d’équivalence de la vitamine E sont à revoir (Vitamin E equivalence criteria need to be reviewed)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2104-les-criteres-dequivalence-de-la-vitamine-e-sont-a-revoir#30174You're misunderstanding me.
VitE in general is derived from a "source". In what reading I've done and podcasts I have listened to - Gamma Tocotrienol and Delta Tocotrienol are the most desirable combination. The best place to source them is the Annatto plant.
Most supplements you see out there are strictly alpha tocopherol and a complete waste of time.
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@JtheDreamer said in vitamin E complex?:
Most supplements you see out there are strictly alpha tocopherol and a complete waste of time.
Well, I agree. But it's not my option.
You didn’t notice or take into account that I mentioned gamma tocopherol can protect cells from the mutagenic and carcinogenic effects.
I also mentioned that tocotrienols could reach its target destination through an alternative pathway despite its low affinity for α-tocopherol transfer protein (passive diffusion).
And of course, you swept away the beneficial association of T1 and T3. The most relevant word being “beneficial association”.
I re-cite:
“Tocotrienols may reach its target destination through an alternative pathway despite its low affinity for α-tocopherol transfer protein”. (12)
And this one, given in the sources (on my forum):
“Gamma-tocopherol has been shown to be the best anti-inflammatory. It is very good for fighting chronic diseases linked to inflammation, including arthritis, cancer, cardiovascular disease and neurodegenerative disorders (7) such as Alzheimer's disease” (8,9)
And last but not least, my choice contains:
NOW
Advanced Gamma E Complex is a full-spectrum vitamin E supplement that features gamma-tocopherol and includes the right balance of tocopherols and tocotrienols.
Note: Not perfect, I agree but interesting, though rather with a very weak level of tocomin.
Nevertheless, if you target a neuro-disorder or an auto-immune reaction with inflammation, annatto would be more adapted. Not just annatto, but a combo, not taken at the same time. Annatto being taken alone at a different moment.
And don't forget to make pause. -
Oh, I thought you were just advocating for tocopherols. Didn’t Ray have a negative attitude towards tocotrienols?
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@winters2 said in vitamin E complex?:
Didn’t Ray have a negative attitude towards tocotrienols?
Yes, but it's a question of dosage and frequency, for me. Still useful, but I won't take much of it, if not in cure, thus for a limited period. Ray said T3 has effects on animal liver (enlargement, probably toxic). T3 is however more fluid / mobile, so that it could easily reach its target (inside membrane vessel, for protection; personal deduction). But I conceive T3 in a rather low fraction, in association with alpha and gamma T1. However there are very few studies analyzing a combo of T1 and T3. And not just under12 weeks as it won't probably prove anything (...)
I cite, from "Vitamin E: Estrogen antagonist, energy promoter, and anti-inflammatory"Besides antagonizing some of the end effects of the toxic fatty acids, vitamin E inhibits lipolysis, lowering the concentration of free fatty acids (the opposite of estrogen’s effect), and it also binds to, and inactivates, free fatty acids. The long saturated carbon chain is very important for its full functioning, and this saturated chain might allow it to serve as a substitute for the omega -9 fats, from which the Mead acid is formed. The unsaturated tocotrienols have hardly been tested for the spectrum of true vitamin E activity, and animal studies have suggested that it may be toxic, since it caused liver enlargement.
One possibly crucial protective effect of vitamin E against the polyunsaturated fatty acids that hasn't been explored is the direct destruction of linolenic and linoleic acid. It is known that bacterial vitamin E is involved in the saturation of unsaturated fatty acids, and it is also known that intestinal bacteria turn linoleic and linolenic acids into the fully saturated stearic acid.
