Mysterious gallbladder disease - can't digest fat for no apparent reason
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@BearWithMe said in Mysterious gallbladder disease - can't digest fat for no apparent reason:
@Peatful said in Mysterious gallbladder disease - can't digest fat for no apparent reason:
If meats and liquids “work best for” you- you would not be so symptomatic.
I'm not eating any liquid food at the moment because it is destroying my teeth, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Neither oats nor rice and corn is a liquid food
Missed that
Not thrilled with this forum’s layoutYour teeth being destroyed by liquid points more to your digestion and subsequent inflammation then it does the liquids per say
I still am low liquid kind of girl, because liquids aren’t necessarily easy to digest or shall I say easy on the stomach -and harder to regulate your blood sugar with liquids I found
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Is significant worsening of the symptoms something to be expected when taking borax to eradicate Candida? @CrumblingCookie
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@BearWithMe Yes wrt strong headaches and flatulence therefore go slowly. Borax breaks loose biofilm. Maybe headaches can be slightly alleviated by KCl and Mg (to increase kidney clearance and also to satisfy needs of its osteoblastic effects). Dimeticone/simeticone would help dissolve gas. And some sort of vegetable fiber to enhance bowel emptying unlesss somebody would want to go straight into a borax-enhanced salt-flush for that.
@BearWithMe said:
I'm left with completely dry mouth, chewing and swallowing is a chore
Look into acetylcholine already (B5 & choline). Hopefully you haven't been doing cyproheptadine or ketotifen or such stuff. Iodide raises secretion of exogenous glands, too.
How was the H.pylori testing, after all? -
Seems like nobody mentioned it so far: When I was unable to digest fat all I needed was to take 4000mg of Taurin and that resolved the issue. Probably not it since you said you could also not digest sugar, but maybe still worth a try.
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@CrumblingCookie Thank you very much.
I was taking 600-1000mg of alpha-gpc, 250-500mg of B5, 100-200mg of B1 and some TMG-betaine every day since early June until mid-August. I was not taking b12 because it was causing bad toothache, and I was not taking lipoic acid because it caused nausea.
My digestion deteriorated very much during that time, I'm unable to eat even 1800 kcal daily now. I don't think the deterioration is caused by the supplements, but they probably did not helped much either. Nowadays I'm too nauseous to take any supplements at all. It is strange because logically your explanation makes perfect sense. And I'm sure I'm deficient in choline. I don't know why it doesn't work.
I did not touched cyproheptadine or ketotifen (or any similar substance) as an adult. I started receiving asthma medication when I was 5 years old, I didn't know what I'm receiving back then and neither did my parents. I changed doctors very often and they always changed my medication so I might have received cyproheptadine or ketotifen at some point.
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GABA, while being great for sleep, made my digestion much worse btw. It went away shortly after stopping the supplementation
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A huge chunk of my molar just crumbled and fell apart after just 5 days of boron supplementation. I've had similar reaction to other forms of boron supplements (glycinate) in the past. Will have to get the prescription for Nystatin, or obtain the medicine by other means
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@BearWithMe said:
A huge chunk of my molar just crumbled and fell apart
That's not normal. Maybe it's time to up your scope before any more dabbling and to get an abdominal MRI to look for structural constrictions or masses and also your plasma levels of Ca, PTH, CT and a GI hormones panel at a specialized clinic.
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@CrumblingCookie My plasma level of Ca was elevated every time I had the test done as far back as 2014, except for the last test I did in 2024. My intact PTH was 2,87 pmol/l (or 27 pg/mL) in 2023. Not sure what CT means in this context, is this possibly a typo?
Can very bad case of pectus excavatum create a structural constriction in GI tract? Also I suspect I have hiatal hernia, but my digestive issues most likely predate the hernia
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@BearWithMe Sorry that the rice and corn didn't work out for you. Did you also try rice noodles? In the past I've noticed huge difference in digestibility between rice - which wouldn't digest well at all - and rice noodles which were very easy to digest. It's a denser carb source and doesn't have as much water.
You've had high blood calcium levels since 2014? That would explain the teeth crumbling situation.... probably not primary hyperparathyroidism though if your PTH is on the low end. What have your vitamin D levels been during this period? And you might've mentioned it already, but have you gotten screened for celiac? In celiac disease you malabsorb vitamin D which then causes secondary hyperparathyroidism and consequent bone loss (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486428?). It's part of the reason why I think oats are such a sketchy food since they contain gluten proteins.
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@Korven
Vitamin D (25-OH)
June 2017: 39,2 nmol/l
June 2024: 133,4 nmol/lI was supplementing D sublingually in 2024 and also getting plenty of sunlight so the results are not a proof of good vitamin D absorbtion. But they do suggest that lack of vitamin D is likely not the cause of teeth crumbling. I was not screened for celiac disease.
I did not try rice noodles yet but I absolutely should do it as soon as possible.
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@BearWithMe Hmm okay.
Your blood calcium was normal in 2024 after you supplemented vitamin D, right? That points to it being a case of secondary hyperparathyroidism, i.e. deficiency of vitamin D3 and/or calcium.
I am a bit surprised that your doctor never tested you for gluten intolerance. I am probably a bit biased since gluten is very bad for me, but celiac disease could explain many if not all your symptoms. The problem is that you have to eat gluten on a daily basis before getting the tests done, otherwise you won't necessarily see the intestinal damage and you get a false negative.
Edit: I would also like to add that if you had high blood calcium, low'ish vitamin D and potentially high PTH (it can fluctuate and sometimes you get a low-mid PTH reading while it's actually elevated) during the years 2014-2023, that might certainly have contributed to your poor dental health. There is a lot of calcium stored in bones and it can take years before the effects of a calcium/vitamin D deficiency show themselves.
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@BearWithMe, no need to respond, but just something to consider if you haven’t explored it yet—thyroid function. You may already know all of this, but just in case you don’t, since the thyroid/parathyroid glands are the main glands involved in calcium metabolism and connective tissue integrity, dry skin, herniations, broken teeth/bone loss, structural deformities, depression, exhaustion, heat and/or cold intolerance, and even poor peristalsis (resulting in dysbiosis/overgrowths, reflux etc.) and dehydration (the thyroid and adrenals, being the main power sources of the body, work in concert with each other to control peristalsis and electrolyte balance) are some of the many symptoms of poor thyroid function. I find the most accurate diagnostics to be:
• Temps—taken first thing in the morning, midday and 20–30 minute after eating, including temps of extremities (feet, hands, nose and ears)
• Pulse rate
• Achilles tendon reflex test—there are videos on YouTube showing how to perform it if your doctor won’t
• Evaporation rate/metabolic rate—total fluids consumed and eliminated via sweat vs urine in a 24 hour periodIf thyroid supplementation is needed, it can temporarily make one sensitive to the adrenaline that was compensating for the lack of thyroid hormone so heart palpitations, shortness of breath, overheating and anxiety, basically, what is often mistaken for hyperthyroid symptoms, are common, in which case taking magnesium at the same time can be helpful to reduce symptoms as the thyroid and adrenals adjust. When finding a proper dose, I increase or decrease it by 1/4 grain (or the equivalent dose of synthetic) every two weeks, checking my temps and pulse rate. If taking a natural thyroid glandular/NDT it should be standardized to be most effective.
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@BearWithMe said:
what CT means in this context
Calcitonin, in the context of (GI) hormones.
Running celiac diagnostics makes sense. -
I was able to increase my food intake so I'm getting 2700 kcal, 500g / 1lb of carbs consistently every day again. But I'm losing ≈1lb of bodyweight a week, despite being very inactive, doing absolutely nothing most of the days.
Also I'm experiencing shortness of breath ever since my digestion got worse.
Currently I'm eating corn (popcorn is the only form that doesn't trigger digestive issues, so I'm eating that), organic fruits and meat. No gluten, no oats, no supplements or medications except for pure pharma grade calcium carbonate powder and glucose powder.
@CrumblingCookie Which hormones should be included in the GI hormone panel?
Can very severe depression cause hypermetabolism in humans?
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@BearWithMe sounds more likely to be malabsorption in your case?
Seems to me like your main problem is stomach acid & enzymes, not digesting the food. & or lacking peristalsis
do you have a dry mouth often?histamine & acetylcholine are involved in these. and thyroid hormone
if you have a dry mouth often it could point to lacking acetylcholine
otherwise maybe low histamine (Histidine -> histamine if the production is working, supports acetylcholine for gastric acid)
or otherwise chronic gastritis can destroy a lot of the acid & enzyme secreting cells , so an immune system damage
the acid secretion activates some of the digestion enzymes.u could try taking standard digestive enzymes with each meal plus combined with an hcl supplement, for a few weeks (i'd start slow on the acid supplement though if there's damage in the stomach can worsen) (obviously encapsulated to avoid contact with teeth)
bromelain can help protein digestionbut should be products available with standard enzymes
bromelain works at high ph unlike the standard enzymes. but idk how much would be effective for how much proteinGDU = practically useless for improving protein digestion
Amylase to break down starch, doesnt work at low ph, so might want to use that first before making it more acidic
otherwise maybe the targets above -
@cs3000 I think it might be both malabsorbtion and hypermetabolism. Glucose powder should be beneficial in case of malabsorbtion? I think it is making things worse. Or not helping at best
@CrumblingCookie made pretty much the same diagnosis (lack of acetylcholine) earlier in this thread. Very cool you both figured out the same thing independently of each other. @CrumblingCookie also prescribed what seems like very sound protocol for increasing acetylcholine. I was following that protocol for more than 3 months but my condition deteriorated during that time.
I was also taking high dose Betaine HCL with high protein foods for more than 6 months, but my condition also deteriorated during that time.
I have chronic gastritis (confirmed by endoscopy) for over a decade, possibly much longer (two decades?)
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@BearWithMe could be i guess high adrenaline + cortisol can speed things for a time along with malabsorption, until the burnout crash occurs. stripping resources (including muscle & bone) to sustain some level of activity for attempts at getting to a better state. otherwise shut down to conserve & try to redirect fewer resources
u mentioned before it felt like food was sitting in stomach for ages, and constipation, so slow motility
For malabsorption:
chronic gastritis but no h pylori infection when tested a while ago
@BearWithMe said in Mysterious gallbladder disease - can't digest fat for no apparent reason:
Calprotectin: 27,78 ug/g (ref. range 0,00 - 50,00)
Candida albicans positive
Apparently having some C. albicans in digestive tract is normal? Should I assume there is an overgrowth?
Reflux is so bad that my spit is dark brown and the constant nausea is almost unbearable.Candida points to low stomach acid, people get increased growth when they take acid blockers. or the carbs sitting there for too long. reflux also points to it.
- If you didn't try B2 in those vitamins , Riboflavin might keep the candida in check , absorption saturates ~30mg orally probably wouldnt need much for this effect on candida:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9927497/
, - you took a HCL supplement but that alone wouldn't break down protein assuming you have lacking enzyme secretion too. The HCL activates protein digesting enzyme & prepares the meat for it to target
Do you have a recent or recentish blood panel for minerals vitamins? out of curiosity
- dry mouth is common with chronic gastritis (and lacking amylase secretion to break down starch for the vitamins nutrients) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30597598/
works at higher pH, and goes down with food into stomach & some to intestine from saliva with chewing (also supposed to secrete into intestine)
if not low acetylcholine, maybe a lack of b12 initiated the dry mouth / lacking secretion among other things cascading (parietal cells need to secrete something for b12 to absorb, if starch / meat broken down enough to release).
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how much starch + starchy fruit you eating compared to low starch fruit? if u assume u are lacking amylase , high starch might not do much
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if you took that GABA daily for a couple weeks did you notice it helping with the dry mouth part?
some supplements wont absorb with low gastric acid , so needs timing with it, or restored
- e.g the calcium carbonate wont break down well ph 4+ which might play a role in your teeth issue along with other lacking nutrients / high cortisol / functionally low protein breakdown
maybe something to try in evenings, eugenol / clove oil has a potent effect at lowering inflammation in the stomach of animals and good effect on mucus secretion there if u dose right.
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low doses work better than high doses which lose &then have opposite effect.
its very potent even < 10mg might work better than higher (less than 1 typical drop) -
if you dose right (low) it also might increase gastric acid & pepsin secretion, if theres enough cells around to do that, while being balanced with the mucus secretion
probably helps candida too.
i would try to get less than 1 drop of clove oil, a drop might be 30mg+ eugenol,
and i would use HPMC capsule instead of gelatin (protein) in your case, then getting some out to lower dose
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jcbn1986/10/3/10_3_161/_pdf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33245926/ -
Thats a lot of fiber, 60g fiber is harsh to process if you dont have proper mucus production (which you'd think would be common in chronic gastritis) but you said porncorn gives less reaction surprisingly
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i'd make sure to rinse with water each time after drinking fruit juice / eating fruit
Glucose powder it's calories but its not solving the vitamin & mineral / protein depletion issue if its malabsorption / failure to digest. its something (& isnt used well if cortisol is high)
- If you didn't try B2 in those vitamins , Riboflavin might keep the candida in check , absorption saturates ~30mg orally probably wouldnt need much for this effect on candida:
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@CrumblingCookie said:
Maybe it's time to up your scope before any more dabbling and to get an abdominal MRI to look for structural constrictions or masses and also your plasma levels of Ca, PTH, CT and a GI hormones panel at a specialized clinic.
As for GI hormones my initial thought would be to check for elevated somatostatin (constipation, lack of motility, steatorrhea; pancreatic and reciprocal gastric dysfunction). In the US they typically run a complete GI hormones panel which includes SST but it's more selective and specialized in other places. Weirdly, the symptomatic treatment for SSTomas is the SST-analogon octreotide, due to a high affinity to SST autoreceptors. You'd be a 1 in 40 millions /year case with that. Anatomically, surgical removal of such neuroendocrine tumors are far from elegant. Clearly it's better to not have one. I'd work my way forward by exluding possible causes step by step. Not sure what your state of insurance and medical services provision is like where you are (Eastern Europe). At this point I would try to (also) get a contrast-enhanced full abdominal MRI without further deferral.
