Wisdom tooth causing infection
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Hi guys,
I have visited a dentist recently who informed me I have a pretty bad tooth abscess being caused by impacted wisdom teeth.
He prescribed me antibiotics to deal with the immediate infection, amoxcillin for 7 days, but told me if i don't get 2 wisdom teeth removed the infection will return.Anyone have any experience with resolving this sort of thing, wisdom teeth issues?
I would like extraction to be a last resort. I am aware that dentists have a tendency to suggest these things when there may be other options.
Is there anything I should take alongside the antibiotics to mitigate negative side effects?Thanks in advance.
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Dealing with the abscess using antibiotics is necessary, and the antibiotics must be taken without delay.Any infection could lead to meningitis. And death would follow.
Removing wisdom teeth is necessary if it causes future infections or if your mouth is too small to fit large teeth. The wisdom teeth are not as important as other teeth as they are too far in the rear and won't be missed.
My grandpa died from not taking an infected tooth seriously and delayed on having it treated. The infection spread to his brain and the meningitis that developed caused his death.
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I've had something similar, had the tooth pulled and don't regret it one bit. If you are already getting issues I'd say it's gone past the point of no return where your own experiments would make a difference. Too risky to leave them in at this point, in my opinion, get them pulled.
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@Meursault I had mine pulled with no issue, avoid the future infections.
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Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-246601Dr peats answer
I think you’re right about keeping the roots to reduce bone loss; rinsing the mouth with coconut oil reduces bacteria. Dental abscesses probably originate with digestive problems; a dentist I knew discovered that he no longer had to treat his patients’ periodontal disease surgically when he prescribed laxatives for them. I think the “silent infection” doctrine is mostly an excuse for expensive treatments. The association between jaw abscesses and heart disease is probably by way of a more general problem involving low vitamin D, a low ratio of calcium to phosphate in the diet, intestinal inflammation, and chronic activation of the renin-angiotensin system.
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Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-389104Ray on wisdom teeth and pericoronitis:
"Mine had been impacted for about 15 years, and within 2 or 3 weeks of taking a small amount of DHEA they erupted properly.
Antibiotic and topical antiseptic are commonly used." -
On antibiotics:
Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-345559On antibiotics:
Ray Peat - 2016 said:
Sometimes the antiseptic foods (raw carrots, cooked mushrooms or bamboo shoots), eaten regularly, will take care of it. I have found, for myself, that small doses of penicillin, such as 200,000 units 3 times a day, are effective in just a day or two. The tetracyclines are more often used for acne, because they have a general antiinflammatory effect, besides the germicidal action. The conventional doses are usually unnecessarily large, based on an assumption that the person has no functional immune system. Large doses of antibiotics have a slight toxic effect on human cells, so I think it's best to use them according to results, rather than formula.Ray Peat said:
There used to be some products available in health food stores (they are probably still available somewhere) containing B. subtilis and B. licheniformis that produce antibiotics in the intestine (or in milk if you culture them), which are good for people who are afraid of antibiotics in pill form.Ray Peat said:
I think minocycline is safer than doxycycline, and is very safe. It is antiinflammatory, and has some protective effect against cancer.
(mentioned here, so sometime 2012 or earlier)Ray Peat said:
People often use minocycline for a long time, but usually 50 or 100 mg in a day. It could possibly make you sensitive to sunlight if it accumulates in your body.Ray Peat said:
I think penicillin is most effective in such situations when it's used intermittently, 2 to 4 days at a time, at intervals of about a week.Ray Peat said:
I usually break the tablets up, and use fourths or halves, at intervals according to need. It's important to get some vitamin K1 or K2 when you use an antibiotic (liver or kale, or supplements). Have you checked your thyroid? Low thyroid function is usually behind the dark circles.Ray Peat said:
My own preference for antibiotics would be in the order Pen-V-K (about 30 to 50 mg at a time, with some carrot), erythromycin, tetracycline, and neomycin (for example Kaomycin). All of the antibiotics are somewhat toxic to people, but at a certain level, they can suppress bacteria without noticeable toxicity for the person. The goal is to establish a better internal ecosystem. Chronic sinus infections are usually the result of chronic irritation of the intestine.Ray Peat said:
I think it's good to try a small amount of an antibiotic at first, watching for a general effect such as mood; I've noticed that when I first have an odor-like sensation after taking a little penicillin (when it reaches a certain level in the tissues), it comes with a general sense of comfort.
Ray Peat said:
My own preference for antibiotics would be in the order Pen-V-K (about 30 to 50 mg at a time, with some carrot), erythromycin, tetracycline, and neomycin (for example Kaomycin). All of the antibiotics are somewhat toxic to people, but at a certain level, they can suppress bacteria without noticeable toxicity for the person. The goal is to establish a better internal ecosystem.
Ray Peat said:
I think penicillin is most effective in such situations when it's used intermittently, 2 to 4 days at a time, at intervals of about a week.
(above three mentioned here, so sometime 2015 or earlier)Ray Peat said:
It isn’t habit forming. The antibiotics erythromycin and tetracycline are anti-inflammatory, and might work better than penicillin. An allergy can cause swelling of the surface of the eye, often it’s from something in the air, but it’s possible that something you ate was involved. Vitamin K is involved in some essential chemical processes in the brain, besides helping to produce metabolic energy; I think it might help with relaxation, too.Ray Peat said:
I use 250 mg tablets of Pen Vi K, which aren’t expensive, and take about a fourth of a tablet at a time, maybe twice a day until a symptom is gone, usually one or two days.Ray Peat said:
Raw carrots, cooked bamboo shoots, and cooked mushrooms contain antibiotics that are safe to use everyday. Like tetracycline and the macrolide antibiotics, they (especially mushrooms) are also antiinflammatory.Ray Peat said:
Antibiotics vary in toxicity, but in general I think it’s best to use a minimally effective dose if it’s to be continued very long. I think tetracycline, erythromycin, and penicillin are fairly safe.Ray Peat said:
Bowel symptoms can affect the heart, maybe you need an antibiotic to reduce the gas.Ray Peat said:
Antibiotics would be like to help with the gas, but you should test a very small amount of it on your lip a day before you take a dose, to see if you have an allergy to it. Pen-Vi-K, erythromycin, tetracycline, and neomycin are types that can be helpful for gas.Ray Peat said:
The antibiotics erythromycin and tetracycline are anti-inflammatory, and might work better than penicillin.Ray Peat said:
Antibiotics vary in toxicity, but in general I think it’s best to use a minimally effective dose if it’s to be continued very long. I think tetracycline, erythromycin, and penicillin are fairly safe.Ray Peat said:
Silver is just slightly less toxic than mercury. Silver would be about as toxic as the organic antibiotics in the short term, and maybe worse if used chronically. Topically, it's probably not as toxic as mercurochrome; permanganate and copper sulfate might be just a little safer. How does silver kill bacteria? It works pretty much by the same mechanism that makes mercury a powerful antiseptic. Heavy metals are relatively indiscriminate oxidants (potent oxidizing agents). All heavy metals - lead, silver, mercury, nickel, cadmium- are very toxic, potent enzyme poisons and go into the brain, causing diseases like Alzheimer's, ALS, MS, etc.
(found on Lita Lee's page, so it must be sometime prior to 2002)Ray Peat said:
Antibiotics will take care of the Borrelia organism in a reasonable time. What are the symptoms of the others?
This is following up on the above one, I think:
Ray Peat said:
I think infections of that sort show up when a person’s resistance is low, and the symptoms are likely to be caused mainly by nutritional and hormonal problems, and to disappear when the metabolism is corrected. Low protein diets are a common cause of multiple infections with those things.Ray Peat - 2017 said:
2 or 3 weeks of treatment with a couple of the older, safer antibiotics is usually effective.J Infect Chemother. 2000 Mar;6(1):65-7.
In-vitro and in-vivo antibiotic susceptibilities of Lyme disease Borrelia
isolated in China.
Li M(1), Masuzawa T, Wang J, Kawabata M, Yanagihara Y.
(1)International Center for Medical Research, Kobe University School of Medicine,
7-5-1 Kusunoki-cho, Chuo-ku, Kobe 650, Japan. muqingl@kobe-u.ac.jp
The antibiotic susceptibilities of seven Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato isolates
from Ixodes persulcatus in China were examined by in-vitro microdilution minimum
inhibition concentration (MIC) and macrodilution minimum bactericidal
concentration (MBC) methods. All isolates tested were susceptible to amoxicillin,
erythromycin, and minocycline. The MICs of these drugs for the Chinese isolates
were 0.025-0.1 microg/ml, <0.012-0.05 microg/ml, and <0.012-0.05 microg/ml,
respectively. The MBCs were 0.1-0.39 microg/ml, <0.012-0.2 microg/ml, and
0.025-0.39 microg/ml, respectively. The in-vivo antimicrobial susceptibilities of
the Chinese Borrelia isolates to two test drugs, amoxicillin and minocycline,
were evaluated using ddY mice. Mice were infected by subcutaneous inoculation
into the right hind footpad. When infection was confirmed, the mice were treated
by subcutaneous injection of the test drugs into the back. Amoxicillin and
minocycline, which possessed high in-vitro activities against Lyme disease
Borrelia, provided good protection against borreliosis in this animal model.
Higher doses of these drugs resulted in elimination of the Lyme disease
spirochete from all animals receiving this course of treatment. The 50% curative
doses (CD50) of amoxicillin and minocycline were 8.7 mg/kg and 3.1 mg/kg,
respectively. This suggested that amoxicillin and minocycline could be useful for
the treatment of Chinese Borrelia infection.Yale J Biol Med. 1984 Jul-Aug;57(4):549-53.
Susceptibility of the Lyme disease spirochete to seven antimicrobial agents.
Johnson SE, Klein GC, Schmid GP, Feeley JC.
The antimicrobial susceptibility of five Lyme disease spirochete strains (two
human and three tick isolates) was determined. A macrodilution broth technique
was used to determine on three separate test occasions the minimal inhibitory
concentrations (MICs) of seven antibiotics. The Lyme disease spirochete was most
susceptible to erythromycin with a MIC of less than or equal to 0.06
micrograms/ml. The spirochete was also found to be susceptible to minocycline,
ampicillin, doxycycline, and tetracycline-HCL with respective mean MICs of less
than or equal to 0.13, less than or equal to 0.25, less than or equal to 0.63,
and less than or equal to 0.79 micrograms/ml. The spirochete was moderately
susceptible to penicillin G with a mean MIC of 0.93 micrograms/ml. All strains
were resistant to rifampin at the highest concentration tested (16.0
Click to expand...Ray Peat - 2017 said:
Sometimes I notice that a few doses of 50 to 100 mg of penicillin will stop a particular symptom; a few times, for a distinct infection, I have used a standard dose of 250 mg 3 or 4 times in a day, stopping as soon as the symptom is gone, usually by the second day. The antiseptic fibrous foods (raw carrot, cooked mushrooms or bamboo shoots) eaten regularly, and avoiding the very rottable indigestible foods such as green salads, give chronic protection against bacteria. Avoiding excess phosphate lowers stress and inflammation, and getting plenty of calcium and vitamin D helps to balance the phosphate. Some aspirin at bedtime might be helpful.[Context: Penicillin VK tablets]
Ray Peat said:
I usually suck on it slowly, to avoid the risk of the tablet sticking to my stomach membrane.[Context: the idea of irreparable damage]
Ray Peat said:
The intestinal flora change along with changes in the metabolism, and have to be taken into account. The changes in the environment have to be greater when the degeneration is more advanced. Antibiotics and antiinflammatories and hormonal supplements become more important when a person is seriously sick. Often, even after the age of 50, just going to a high sunny place and eliminating the worst foods is all it takes to restore good health. -
- carrot salad/mushrooms asap
- coffee, cascara, magnesium to keep bowels moving "a dentist I knew discovered that he no longer had to treat his patients’ periodontal disease surgically when he prescribed laxatives for them."
- sunbathing, high dose k2mk4, magnesium supplementation, and milk for perfect calcium metabolism.
- vitamin C.
Ray Peat said:
Stress weakens teeth from the inside, drawing mineral from the dentine; the dentine is the part that can regenerate, not the enamel. Thyroid function is the most important thing for limiting stress.
Ray Peat said:
Stress typically causes calcium to be removed from the small channels in the dentine, and it tends to be unequal, resulting in spots of discoloration in some teeth, that can develop into cavities. Thyroid is the most important antistress hormone as well as influencing the saliva and immunity.“I think augmentin is among the more dangerous antibiotics”
"Melting a little coconut oil in the mouth frequently during the day can be effective, because it's antiseptic (and swallowing some at intervals during the day contributes to disinfecting the intestine). Vitamins D and K help some people. The problem usually involves endotoxin absorption, so small daily amounts of minocycline help some people. Putting bamboo shoots through a shredding food processor, so they don't take much chewing, might help to reduce endotoxin. Checking the thyroid is important."
Forum member:
"I have three normal wisdom teeth. The one in the bottom left side Is inflamed and you can tell it’s trying to emerge but the gum is not letting it. When I chew solid food, I think the top left side wisdom tooth is grinding on the gum surrounding the incomplete wisdom tooth and thus I feel sharp pain and inflammation. What do you think will help solve this issue? Should I extract it? Or wait until it’s fully emerged?"Peat:
"When I first tried using DHEA (about 5 mg/day) my lower wisdom teeth quickly erupted and moved into position. I think chronically slightly low thyroid function with low vitamin D is usually responsible for delayed wisdom tooth eruption.""Thyroid and other antiinflammatory things (even aspirin) help to prevent conversion to estrogen. Since stress can quickly decalcify teeth, a good state without stress should make teeth whiter."
mechanical cleaning
- water floss for stuck food - which is likely the cause of your abscess (along with slow bowel movements & endotoxin overload)
- salt water rinse
- coconut oil rinse
- xylitol rinse
what RAY recommended ON TEETH (from bioenergetic.life interviews)
- aspirin
- benedryl cyprohetpadine
- keep the gut clean mushrooms, carrot salad
- antibiotics
- vitamin D
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If you arent already begin tracking how many bowel movements youre having. you should be having one a day, 2-3 is better. be careful of taking things that could slow your bowel movements, cyproheptadine, activated charcoal are known slow bowel movements. Keep the bowels clean, this means carrot salad/mushrooms to lower endotoxin, and to keep it moving, keep coffee intake high, supplement magnesium on top, and cascara will definitely cause BM's.
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Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-443761Hello Ray. Do you think amoxicillin is one of the safer antibiotics?
RP:
I would call it one of the less risky. -
@Chud
the dentist suspected the infection had started 2 months ago which was a time when I was suffering from a build-up of the effects of chronic stress and inflammation. Cascara basically fixed my digestive issues and so I'll try that again along with carrot salad. one thing I am concerned about is the antibiotic treatment worsening gut health in some way. One thing I have noticed on the antibiotics is a very bad histamine response. I already had an issue with this and cyproheptadine makes it better but hasn't fixed the root cause. I suspect impaired liver function and lack of bowel movements, endotoxin as you mentioned is implicated in this. Read that Ray peat recommended taking sugar with amoxicillin to someone who had similar reaction as it is an anti-histamine. I'll try everything you mentioned, I imagine a lot of it will be important in maintaining a lack of any bacteria exposure to the gums that were affected once done with the antibiotics -
@Meursault consider the possibility the cause
@Meursault said in Wisdom tooth causing infection:
@Chud
the dentist suspected the infection had started 2 months ago which was a time when I was suffering from a build-up of the effects of chronic stress and inflammation. Cascara basically fixed my digestive issues and so I'll try that again along with carrot salad. one thing I am concerned about is the antibiotic treatment worsening gut health in some way. One thing I have noticed on the antibiotics is a very bad histamine response. I already had an issue with this and cyproheptadine makes it better but hasn't fixed the root cause. I suspect impaired liver function and lack of bowel movements, endotoxin as you mentioned is implicated in this. Read that Ray peat recommended taking sugar with amoxicillin to someone who had similar reaction as it is an anti-histamine. I'll try everything you mentioned, I imagine a lot of it will be important in maintaining a lack of any bacteria exposure to the gums that were affected once done with the antibioticsConsider that “worsening gut health“ might be that the amox standard dosage, if that’s what you’re taking, is too high/too toxic.
