Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?

[fiester]

James 5:1-7

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

>quoting anything but the King James Version
Disgusting

The entire book of James is rebuking those that trust in themselves or their works rather than the finished work of Jesus Christ. It also rebukes those that do no work as having a dead faith - meaning not they are not saved, but rather they are unprofitable servant. So the Bible here is not condemning the rich, simply saying they are more concerned about things that aren't of spiritual value.

Matthew 6:19-21

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Another passage that came to mind that you might want to twist is Matthew 19:24

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Now you see here... But that would be taking things out of context, let's look at a parallel passage in Mark 10, in context:

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Now you see here, Christ loved this man. This man had earnest intentions of pleasing God! He wanted to work more for God! The man went away sorrowful because he realized that he had so much to give and had lived his life without giving, he lacked charity. He did not walk away because he was denied access into heaven. Christ knew this man was laying treasures up for himself and pointed out his sin. He was not commanding ALL rich men to give everything they have unto the poor, but he was telling how this one man who wanted to please God, how he could further please Him.

Concerning Cain and Abel, Genesis 4:

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

The story is about jealousy. Anyone can see that. But to keep with it; Hebrews 11:4 says

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Why was it more excellent?
Hebrews 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Christ's blood speaks better things than Abel's sacrifice. God was more pleased with Abel's sacrifice not because of monetary value but because of spiritual value. Every sacrifice of the Old Testament was a picture of Jesus Christ on the cross. Blood speaks to God because it represents life.

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

But this is different topic for a different time...

Mark 12:41-44

And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Not sure how this helps you at all promote communism, it clearly points out how the ratio of what you put in to what you have is pleasing to God. I guess rich people=bad because not giving more? Pretty weak. Just wanted to post the KJV.

Hope this was helpful.

Just for fun here are a few passages about people not working:

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

2 Thessalonians 3:10-11 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

[Norwegian Mugabe]

Great post @fiester. This was helpful. Christianity is clearly against dialectic materialism and Marxism. Christianity is also more reasonable than materialism.

If you are against the King James Bible, what English edition of the Bible should I rather read? E. Michael Jones and Peter Hitchens seems to prefer the King James version.

[fiester]

@Norwegian-Mugabe

I think you misread. The KJV is the only version in English that you should be reading. All other (per)versions twist scripture.

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@fiester Thanks. I did misread you. The poetic value of the King James version is very high. Some of the passanges are among the best litterature in the english language.

[CO3]

This post is deleted!

[CO3]

@fiester said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

Let's see if you illiterates can figure out what this Soviet poster says, quoting the great Lenin:

[CO3]

The ignorance to bring exactly that quote into a discussion with a communist about the Bible! It is almost beyond parody, I could think of like 25 better ways to argue your side than you are doing. Truly pitiable.

This isthe third guy in the thread that has just self-immolated with barely any help from me. Keep them coming!

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@CO3 keep deleting your posts. I am sure this will convince us that you are right. You are not arguing any points. You just bring the commie gib me that toddler mentality to the forum.

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe The post was me laughing that your English is bad, and the fact that you didn't know what "Anything but" means.

I assume @brad could confirm but it doesn't need to come to that! When I saw you had misread I deleted that post, since you admitted it was a simple lack of reading comprehension.

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe I have argued many points that you have ignored. What's been proved here : your Christianity is a mask, you have no theoretical grounding for your political position, and no knowledge of your opponents' ideas either.

Of course you're giving up, just like the guy before you and the guy before him, it is fine by me! It's even funnier how the discussion shifted to Christianity and its compatibility with communism because the topic on the agenda had already been decided: You are adventurists, vitiating the works of the great Raymond Peat!

And even then in this debate on Christianity and communism, while you were being dismantled utterly, the backup you bring in comes in with uhh but ackshually bible say : "He who does not work shall not eat."

Marvelous! More delicious than the milk powder pancakes with marmalade I had this morning.

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe

Ah excellent, it's actually still here!

[vesprad]

@fiester said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

So the Bible here is not condemning the rich, simply saying they are more concerned about things that aren't of spiritual value.

What do you think this would lead to, naturally? What do you think happens when you're more concerned about things than about Heaven?

He was not commanding ALL rich men to give everything they have unto the poor, but he was telling how this one man who wanted to please God, how he could further please Him.

Hm... What makes him different?

Not sure how this helps you at all promote communism, it clearly points out how the ratio of what you put in to what you have is pleasing to God. I guess rich people=bad because not giving more? Pretty weak.

Why wouldn't they? Do they need the money?

[fiester]

Blocking hides all posts which is fantastic.
I like how he had no counter points other than literal propaganda posters.

[CO3]

@Truth Read it, it takes seconds! I do not mean this to be dismissive.

I posted the original hebrew on here, with the translation underneath. I would recommend using biblehub for all such interpretations, especially if you are versed in Greek or grammar generally. All the major translations are on there. Abel gives OF his firstlings, AND their fat! Abel gives grain.

My interpretation that a tiller of soil has more surplus product than a shepherd is not in the text! It is however, not entirely without a historical basis, they are different modes of living entirely. This is why crop production lent itself to feudalism.

You can ask yourself why the professions were chosen, and the representations do not stop with the simple reality of the amount of produce of course. It's also a nice implication about the value of these products, to bring it back to the ideas of Ray.

[CO3]

@fiester
haha he blocks and calls me weak. My counterpoint was Lenin! The great theoretician! The man who Ray looked up to for metaphysics and philosophy!

[Truth]

@CO3 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@Truth

He gave of the firstlings - multiple! possibly valuable females too - AND of their fat! He has no intention to receive better than he gave, unlike his brother. It's a massive difference from giving some grain that you were going to sell. The two professions are very different in the way that you can accumulate

Are you refering to this ?

I did read the story of Cain and Abel on internet, it doesn't mention anything about Cain intending to receive more in return, nor does it mention that they do these tasks to earn money, sell to whom if they are supposed to be the first children of Adam and Eve, the first humans?

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@CO3 Thanks for deleting some of your unreadable posts. Now please go ahead and delete the rest. You have not argued anything. Nothing you write is coherent. People are indeed giving up, as it is impossible to reason with a moronic maniac. Keep posting Soviet propaganda pamphlets on an English health forum. I am sure this will someday help you coping with existence. We are discussing why the Bible support right-wing ideology, while you are yelling about greed and breakfast. you're at your best when you spam incoherent ad hominem attacks. Almost everyone has blocked you by now.
May you be the proof that man can endure anything.

[S.Holmes]

I have great respect for the out of the box thinkers that have found this forum. That being said, would you be so kind as to apply your critical thinking skills to the following? I was raised in a futurist charismatic evangelical church and spent my early married life on a pilgrimage (search for truth really) which ultimately led my family here (see link) 25 years ago. If you choose to delve into this, thoughtful discussion appreciated, but please do not use Google to critique as we all surely know by now that it's controlled by warmongering globalists who look forward to an engineered (by them) Armageddon. You will find nothing there but smears and disinformation. If this ever goes mainstream, they are DONE.
http://www.preteristcentral.com/Why I am a Preterist.html

[fiester]

@vesprad said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@fiester said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

So the Bible here is not condemning the rich, simply saying they are more concerned about things that aren't of spiritual value.

What do you think this would lead to, naturally? What do you think happens when you're more concerned about things than about Heaven?

Being carnally minded leads you selfishness. Spiritually minded leads to selflessness. What roads or avenues it takes you doesn't matter as long as the world or wiles of the devil or whatever you wish to call it has it's grasp on your attention rather than God. See James chapter 2 for example, keeping in mind James is talking to people who believe on God already and aren't working, not talking to everyone including non-believers.

He was not commanding ALL rich men to give everything they have unto the poor, but he was telling how this one man who wanted to please God, how he could further please Him.

Hm... What makes him different?

He asked what else he needed to do, Christ told him. What makes him different is he is seeking the truth/God rather than more 'things'.

Not sure how this helps you at all promote communism, it clearly points out how the ratio of what you put in to what you have is pleasing to God. I guess rich people=bad because not giving more? Pretty weak.

Why wouldn't they? Do they need the money?

God only commands us to give a tithe, 10% of our gross income, what people give beyond that is up to them. God only requires our faith, beyond that what you do with your money or time reflects your obedience towards God. Like James 2 above.

Exodus 20:17

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's

[Kilgore]

@Norwegian-Mugabe

@Norwegian-Mugabe said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

People are indeed giving up, as it is impossible to reason with a moronic maniac

Arguing with a commie is the worst thing you can do to yourself. He has nothing to lose but you will definitely lose brain cells. Its not worth it.