Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?

[Kvirion]

@lutte said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Economists have not invented capitalism.

They misunderstood how a system of natural exchange of good works, and their mistakes have influenced people's perception of the "free market" and economic policies for centuries... And all of this influence is in bidirectional relationships with behaviors (feedback loops). I.e. it's all an accumulated mess now...

BTW You may want to learn about Actor-Network Theory...

Not only do we need to reassess science, and history every time because of recent revelations or understandings,

Agreed.

but also because life, everything is constant flux. Even physical laws.

No, not everything, some things are more fluid, and others are pretty stable. It's good to know the difference...
E.g. energy is more fluid than structures...

BTW many works of Adam Smith have been falsified... it makes no sense to rely on them anymore...
Just an example https://evonomics.com/advice-to-an-aspiring-economist-the-invisible-hand-is-a-wishful-invention/

A comprehensive discussion about all of those points above is beyond the scope of this forum. If you would like to know more, I'm happy to recommend for example this lecture https://youtu.be/ReYhKKQ--1c or this https://youtu.be/EC11UQD9q3w

[A Former User]

@CO3 Marx is one side of the Hegelian Dialectic. come up higher bros

The Problem: The actual toxicity of capitalism, is that it elevates laborers to inheritors. Capitalism was considered liberal and secular just 150 years ago. The very mindset of a healthy life, is to own something via peace and birthright - outside of the context of strife. Strife is fighting for something that's not yours. Healthy people are given inheritances and gifts, and work from a sense of sacrifice for those things' sustenance, where there will indeed be seasons of strife - noblesse oblige (for family, subordinate, enterprise, influence, governance, etc). But, people who acquire a thing via strife (serotonin and estrogen), create orphans and contemptible classes of "have/have-nots."

There will always be "haves and have-nots" with us; Matthew 26:11 "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

Proverbs 30:21-23:
“Under three things the earth trembles, under four it cannot bear up: a servant [or pauper] who becomes king, a godless fool who gets plenty to eat, a contemptible woman who gets married, and a servant who displaces her mistress."
Half of the examples speak to upending hierarchy.

Contemptible wealthy people are often limited to those who obtained their wealth via financecraft, rather than a leader/royal-birthright position. They leverage people's desperation via "wages," and scalp the imbalance of supply and demand. Their principle goal and metric of good, is resource acquisition, rather than leading a people unto their betterment, via safety, sustainability, balance, and order (as an extension of his betterment, like a Father would do).

Societies made of humans, need the governance of humans: Spiritual Fatherhood and Motherhood, in every strata and institution. No infighting of children for the bread, but order for all.

The dialectic is hierarchy vs sustainability for the disadvantaged. The truth is that actual hierarchy is required for ensuring every poor person has a house and well watered garden. Marx correctly identified the downfall of the sustainable human hierarchy, since the tearing down of monarchs of Europe, and ultimately, the enlightenment. However, he wanted to help it take it's course, unto eventual utopia. I don't believe that order spontaneously emerges from entropy, but rather a less effectual watered down resettlement of previous order. The universe is expanding and weakening, not expanding and creating emergent equally strong universes. We will never have an emergent society of utopia for the masses, but rather, new, more despotic hierarchies will emerge out of deconstructed power dynamics.

"Liberation" of man served only to liberalize his suffering.

The Answer: Restore Order.

[A Former User]

@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.

I think the grass roots conservatives, many of whom actually work (instead of talk) for a living, are better able to employ discernment because they have to in their everyday lives. I think you are mistaken; the conservative movement is not just a "cult of Trump". The conservative movement is comprised of a massive number of people in the U.S. who have gotten a craw full. Since 9-11, the political pendulum has veered too far to the left (in a strangely fascist sort of way); now it will massively correct to the right (or the nation will cease to exist). I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back: "Donald Trump was/is not just our candidate, he’s our murder weapon; the GOPe is our victim."

An update from today:
Big Ugly Shift – Koch Network Drops Haley Support, Retreats to Senate Decepticon Alamo
"In the announcement that Charles Koch and AFP are withdrawing financial support for Nikki Haley, they are admitting the institutional republican apparatus is now dropping back to control their Senate and Congressional power systems. In essence if they cannot control the presidency, they will control all of the systems that stem from the office of the presidency and thereby block Trump from delivering on the America-First agenda.

This is what President Trump first encountered in 2017 when the professional republican system recoiled at the change that Trump represented. The largest amount of aversion to the America First agenda comes from the Republican wing inside the Senate; this is the core of the Decepticon construct.

With Donald J Trump shifting to become the “presumptive nominee,” an outcome of his support by the base voter, Charles Koch, AFP and to a larger extent all of the various professional republican elements (corporate republicanism) are now creating their last line of defense. All of the institutions again aligned to try and stop President Trump from fracturing the political control system within the USA political apparatus.

Trump is the weapon to destroy the long-created Republican ‘illusion of choice’. This is why people see masks dropping as the opposition to Trump becomes so transparent. Politicians and people within the political system, long thought to be Republicans who represented the alternative to leftism, are increasingly exposed as mere illusions of pushback. These revelations will continue as MAGA pushes deeper into the republican political network."

[Mulloch94]

@mostlylurking I think I probably used a poor choice of words when I said the conservative party. Conservatism is more of a social movement than anything, so yeah I think conservatives will more or less be the same post-Trump. If you think about some of the archetype examples right now, conservatives dig that whole homestead, homeschool, family unit lifestyle. That existed before Trump and that will exist after him. What I meant was I think it will be really hard to keep establishment shills out of the GOP party when he's gone. Rewording it, I think the populist political wave will begin to die down some when he's gone. I don't know any other conservative right now with the capability of tapping into that energy.

Ron DeSantis totally fucked up in the debates, and I don't think MAGA crowds see him as being capable of national leadership anymore. He also seemed to be more pro-war than I thought, and perhaps if he were in the oval, he might just be another Raytheon elephant and therefore not so anti-establishment. If there's one thing I did like about Trump above all else, he stood his ground on foreign entanglements...more or less. I mean he increased a few drone strikes here and there, Yemen especially. But that was more or less him throwing a bone to the military-industiral-complex so they stay satiated on innocent blood and not give him the JFK treatment. But he didn't increase any substantial war efforts. Ever since Biden got in we've turned that shit up ten fold, lol.

[A Former User]

@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@mostlylurking I think I probably used a poor choice of words when I said the conservative party. Conservatism is more of a social movement than anything, so yeah I think conservatives will more or less be the same post-Trump. If you think about some of the archetype examples right now, conservatives dig that whole homestead, homeschool, family unit lifestyle. That existed before Trump and that will exist after him. What I meant was I think it will be really hard to keep establishment shills out of the GOP party when he's gone. Rewording it, I think the populist political wave will begin to die down some when he's gone. I don't know any other conservative right now with the capability of tapping into that energy.

The masses of conservatives et. al. are awake (not "woke") and are watching. They aren't going to go back to sleep in this lifetime. Their lives have been threatened. The power elites tried to poison all of us by injection. The concept that "You will own nothing and you will be happy" really doesn't sit well. This line wasn't spoken in jest. Take a little time and read The Great Taking or watch the documentary. Listen carefully to what David Webb is saying. This is not going to just die down and blow over.

Ron DeSantis totally fucked up in the debates, and I don't think MAGA crowds see him as being capable of national leadership anymore. He also seemed to be more pro-war than I thought, and perhaps if he were in the oval, he might just be another Raytheon elephant and therefore not so anti-establishment.

Did you notice this?
Ron DeSantis Wins the Coveted George Soros Endorsement – Describing DeSantis as “Shrewd, Ruthless and Ambitious”… This was the kiss of death for DeSantis.

If there's one thing I did like about Trump above all else, he stood his ground on foreign entanglements...more or less. I mean he increased a few drone strikes here and there, Yemen especially. But that was more or less him throwing a bone to the military-industiral-complex so they stay satiated on innocent blood and not give him the JFK treatment. But he didn't increase any substantial war efforts. Ever since Biden got in we've turned that shit up ten fold, lol.

How do I begin? Such a giant topic. Here, watch this video.

[A Former User]

@CO3 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@jwayne it has nothing to do with marxism though? where did you even get the idea? You literally think they're communist because of the name?

To say "nothing to do with" is inaccurate. There's 75 years of literature about Chinese Marxism. Even today all land, resources and major economic assets are state-owned.

[CO3]

@jwayne It's not inaccurate. If a state follows a liberal ideology, it is a liberal state. If it conducts itself economically as a capitalist enterprise, however oligarchical, it is capitalist. There's almost not a single Marxist nowadays that supports China's system of using its citizens as slave labor to produce for the West.

If you think state ownership = communism you really need to read more. There's no way around this, especially if you intend to argue with communists.

[A Former User]

@CO3 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@jwayne There's almost not a single Marxist nowadays that supports China's system of using its citizens as slave labor to produce for the West.

This is the difference starting from 1978 that I indicated earlier. Following this time period is an expansion of Maoist education initiatives, elimination of poverty, massive infrastructural development, and so on with all national industries (high-tech, space, etc.). This is very different than a domestic hollowing out export economy or a financial based one without a tangible backing.

[Hando-Jin]

@mostlylurking said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.

I think the grass roots conservatives, many of whom actually work (instead of talk) for a living, are better able to employ discernment because they have to in their everyday lives. I think you are mistaken; the conservative movement is not just a "cult of Trump". The conservative movement is comprised of a massive number of people in the U.S. who have gotten a craw full. Since 9-11, the political pendulum has veered too far to the left (in a strangely fascist sort of way); now it will massively correct to the right (or the nation will cease to exist). I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back: "Donald Trump was/is not just our candidate, he’s our murder weapon; the GOPe is our victim."

America isn't moving from left to right. It's moving from imperialist to nativist/nationalist. Lefty politics didn't do the country in, America's inherent fascist and militaristic nature did. Lefty cultural politics is just a cat amongst the pigeons while the Department of Defense bankrupts the country.

[A Former User]

@Hando-Jin said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@mostlylurking said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.

I think the grass roots conservatives, many of whom actually work (instead of talk) for a living, are better able to employ discernment because they have to in their everyday lives. I think you are mistaken; the conservative movement is not just a "cult of Trump". The conservative movement is comprised of a massive number of people in the U.S. who have gotten a craw full. Since 9-11, the political pendulum has veered too far to the left (in a strangely fascist sort of way); now it will massively correct to the right (or the nation will cease to exist). I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back: "Donald Trump was/is not just our candidate, he’s our murder weapon; the GOPe is our victim."

America isn't moving from left to right. It's moving from imperialist to nativist/nationalist. Lefty politics didn't do the country in, America's inherent fascist and militaristic nature did. Lefty cultural politics is just a cat amongst the pigeons while the Department of Defense bankrupts the country.

America's fascist and militaristic "nature" is top down, not grass roots. We are now witnessing a massive house cleaning of the evil that has infested our government. But this is a global thing, not just America, although the power elite's tentacles that emanate from D.C. are spread far and wide.

The evil has complete control of the mass media. The internet has provided an alternative.

[Peatly]

@Hando-Jin said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@mostlylurking said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@Mulloch94 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Ehhhh...I think conservatives are more opened to discourse of opinion on wedge issues, but when it comes to the bare essentials they're just as lockstep as the liberals are. The republican party is basically the cult of Trump. Look at what happens whenever those "Never Trumpers" try to shill for a new candidate....they get crushed, lol. The red wave is a Trump wave. And once Trump leaves politics for good, the conservative party will go back to being just as lame as ever with dinosaur establishment shills like Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.

I think the grass roots conservatives, many of whom actually work (instead of talk) for a living, are better able to employ discernment because they have to in their everyday lives. I think you are mistaken; the conservative movement is not just a "cult of Trump". The conservative movement is comprised of a massive number of people in the U.S. who have gotten a craw full. Since 9-11, the political pendulum has veered too far to the left (in a strangely fascist sort of way); now it will massively correct to the right (or the nation will cease to exist). I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back: "Donald Trump was/is not just our candidate, he’s our murder weapon; the GOPe is our victim."

America isn't moving from left to right. It's moving from imperialist to nativist/nationalist. Lefty politics didn't do the country in, America's inherent fascist and militaristic nature did. Lefty cultural politics is just a cat amongst the pigeons while the Department of Defense bankrupts the country.

Daniele Ganser published a book last year that speaks to this
USA: The Ruthless Empire Daniele Ganser

[Norwegian Mugabe]

It is over for the West. Lol at humanity. I went to the shopping mall today. The decline is manifest. Outbreed depression is real. Posture does not get enough attention here. people can barely keep their bodies together. They waddle along like obese ametrical penguins. They are neither black nor white anymore. They are just weak ugly fat carriers. People also isolate themselves in public by using their phones at all times. There is no dress style either. Everything is ugly. The architecture is hideous too. People are intensely loud. People talk to people next to them as if they were 15 meters away. The children are invariably crying too. This is a proof of a stressed state. The women are huge and masculinized. The men are skinny-fat with jewelry. I went to the bookstore, and they are not offering serious literature anymore. You could get good books at the bookstore ten years ago. Now they only offer a display of: crime, self-help, SJW crap, and cheap BSDM romances. The decline is clearly accelerating too. The fall from before Copevid to today is likely the greatest fall in human capital ever in such a short time span. Do you think the policies of mass migration and lockdowns would have been approved before the smartphone era?

None of the underlying trends seems to improve. Migrants and outbreeds are an increasing proportion of our societies. People keep getting fatter and weaker. The hormonal quality of humans is also eroding faster than ever before. To my astonishment, I saw several obese women without tits today. This would have been illegal in a sane society. More and more children are born to single mothers. In Norway under one percent of children were born to single mothers before the 80s. Now it is at 12%. That number does not include all the children who will grow up with separated parents or gay parents(satanic). There is clear evidence that IQ, brain size, and jaw width are all reducing at a great pace. Within non-outbreed families, the Norwegian average IQ is falling 0,21 IQ points every year. If you then add the average immigrant at 86 IQ points, then you have a doomed society. Demography is destiny. For upper-middle-class people like myself, the total tax rate is over 70% and is only augmenting. Over 15% is on the dole, and an even higher number has fake public jobs to get people into the "workforce". The average IQ of parliamentarians in Britain is 117. These are the top thirteen-percenters IQ-wise. 77% of Labour parliamentarians did not know the answer to the following question: if you spin a coin twice, what is the probability of getting two heads? The teachers and midwives you are relying on are not nearly that competent. Both health and intelligence will only get worse in our society. Great political shifts like Backmigration and tax cuts for the producers will not be enough to save us. We need a very strong eugenic shift. That is the only option at this point. We also need a completely different school system. Good people have too few children and they have children too late. The worst people are breeding like rabbits. The good people are financing the rotten children. Moreover, every generation within families is physically and mentally less capable than the last. Processed food should be outlawed. Outbreeding should be banned (Sorry passport bros). 80-90% are metabolically sick, while Gen Zers spend 9 hours in front of the screen every day. Babies are increasingly watching screens too, but researchers think that these numbers are underreported. The new normal is an outbreed baby who is fed soy PUFA breast milk replacement while watching the telly while their single mother is taking the SRI medicine. All of this is approved and financed by you guys. Enjoy the downfall.

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe When you work on your health all this mental illness will fade! Ray talks about this. Not saying it's a pretty image when you go outside, but this type of disgust reaction is one I had when I was messed up hormonally and mentally still a child.

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@CO3 I have better health than you. I am extremely strong and have a high temperature. My squat sets are now well into the 200s. I never think of these things on a day-to-day basis. The shopping mall got me into a healthy rage. That being said, it would be totally unhealthy to think it is acceptable that 12% of children are born to single mothers, or that outbreed depression is acceptable. Everything I wrote was correct, even though it is best to avoid the masses and avoid thinking about these things. I am very fortunate to work with a high IQ homoethnic group of wealthy coworkers. I am shielded from average people for most of my life. I am happy with my life, but our society as a whole is literally doomed. You are correct though that our health changes how we view these things. I was angry at the decline a few years ago. Now I laugh at it.

[lutte]

undisputed

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe weightlifting is stupid but seeing someone brag about a 200lbs squat is the funniest fucking thing I've seen this week

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@CO3 200KGs*. Muscles are beautiful. Muscles increase BMR. Muscles increases competence. You would not be a commie if you had a functional body(or mind).

[CO3]

@Norwegian-Mugabe That is impressive! Many, many guys that are good at lifting a weight up and down that are still mentally and physically completely deranged. As you can see by your depressed pathetic post.

What I don't understand is that you guys have no political philosophy, so I don't see why you're so mad that somebody else does think and read about the subject? It's fine. You can do it too one day!

[Peatly]

@Norwegian-Mugabe said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@CO3 I have better health than you. I am extremely strong and have a high temperature. My squat sets are now well into the 200s. I never think of these things on a day-to-day basis. The shopping mall got me into a healthy rage. That being said, it would be totally unhealthy to think it is acceptable that 12% of children are born to single mothers, or that outbreed depression is acceptable. Everything I wrote was correct, even though it is best to avoid the masses and avoid thinking about these things. I am very fortunate to work with a high IQ homoethnic group of wealthy coworkers. I am shielded from average people for most of my life. I am happy with my life, but our society as a whole is literally doomed. You are correct though that our health changes how we view these things. I was angry at the decline a few years ago. Now I laugh at it.

This insularity is hardly conducive to maintaining a high IQ. Wouldn’t exposing yourself to a variety of experiences enhance your intellect?

[Norwegian Mugabe]

@Peatly I am sure I would have been smarter if I spent more time watching niggers shitting in the streets.